Ardbeg - MNR Notice

[MuddMachine]

Sent originally to Gerry at our neighbor zook site (http://www.suzitrails.ca), it ended up in my hands (thanx Shannon). It's all about the no camping at Black Lake and it's all cuz of those guys from Obsessive Offroad, they were camped next to us. Yes Im badmouthing these guys, I did it face to face before we left after May 24 weekend of 2003.

[MuddMachine]

pg 2 ..............

[MuddMachine]

the map .............

[vanbdan]

Were they the clowns in the u-haul with the toyota.?Those guys just dont get it...bringing furniture,and carpet and other crap and burning it and all the other stuff going on...theydeserved to be badmouthed fn aholes!

[MuddMachine]

and last but not least, the sign....................

[MLC]

there is always an ass or a group of them to screw things for the rest of us .....(confrontation between campers)....that wasn't you Muddmachine was it ?????????:yike

[MuddMachine]

Originally posted by vanbdan
Were they the clowns in the u-haul with the toyota.?Those guys just dont get it...bringing furniture,and carpet and other crap and burning it and all the other stuff going on...theydeserved to be badmouthed fn aholes!


And the potatoe canon, driving thru the bush right in the campground, behind our tents at night, pissed drunk. And lets not forget cutting green trees down for firewood.

:yike :yike :yike

[MLC]

i think they call that defacing a tree don't they???????? the sign screwed the tree

[MuddMachine]

Originally posted by MLC
there is always an ass or a group of them to screw things for the rest of us .....(confrontation between campers)....that wasn't you Muddmachine was it ?????????:yike


LOL, nope, not this time. Cottagers take the main road into the campground and keep going to get to thier cottage. Apparently they were being hassled on the way thru the campground.

Dunno what they call it but these guys were the ones who needed 'defacing'

[MLC]

we have a problem with people driving in the lakes in a area that the MNR is trying to close down to every thing ....somebody... got them on video and took it to the MNR.......

[vanbdan]

Oh yes the potato gun."hey lets get really drunk and fire things across the fawkin lake!!!.I'm sure nobody over there will mind."

Or lets drive my busted ass toyota with an armchair tied to the back frame rails around with someone in the seat.My friggin 17 year old teenage nephew,who is a pure city kid has more brains than that,and a hell of of a lot more respect for the bush,and other people around him.Those guys and people like them are assholes,and have screwed up a good thing.It really sucks for the rest of use that pick up the garbage and leave the place as we found it.

[leadfoot]

Yes that really sucks. :mad: It is usually people that are NOT in offroad clubs that cause all the problems for us.

[Mud Lite]

The same think will be posted for this year. Just to make sure people understand. This is not a trail closure , it is a Camping Ban. You can still go wheeling in the area, Just not Camp.

[MuddMachine]

Originally posted by leadfoot
Yes that really sucks. :mad: It is usually people that are NOT in offroad clubs that cause all the problems for us.

Sorry Andy I screwed your post up ! My bad :bang:


As I was saying Obsessive Offroad IS A CLUB and they have a website as well www.obsessiveoffroad.com

[The Grump]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MuddMachine
[B] it ended up in my hands (thanx Shannon).

No problem Mudd. :)

[Mud Runner]

I’m not a member of Obsessive offroad Club. But I do know some of the members.

You guys sure do bitch about them allot (Insecure in your rides maybe ? hehe… it was a joke ). Yes last year they brought furniture to the campgrounds! So what... I thought it was a great idea, and kinda funny. (They also brought a welder a compressor and almost every tool needed to repair people’s rides) Plus If I remember correctly they did a better job of cleaning their campsite up than you guys did. The potato gun was harmless and no potato’s reached the other side (That’s where I was camped). As for the Toyota with the seat welded on the frame rails… well that was fun too.

The thing that people need to remember is to tread lightly, have respect for the land and other 4x4ers, and clean up your mess when done. Leave your attitudes at home. We all enjoy this sport and the last thing anyone wants is confrontation among 4x4ers.

[TheSarg]

Mental note to self: Burning furniture and operating an offroad vehicle in an unsafe manner is considered treading lightly to some people....blah blah blah blah


Thank gawd fer Suzican, lets have 5 or 6 of them a year instead.

[admin]

Originally posted by Mud Runner


You guys sure do bitch about them allot (Insecure in your rides maybe ? hehe… it was a joke ).

Yes last year they brought furniture to the campgrounds! So what... I thought it was a great idea, and kinda funny. (They also brought a welder a compressor and almost every tool needed to repair people’s rides) Plus If I remember correctly they did a better job of cleaning their campsite up than you guys did. The potato gun was harmless and no potato’s reached the other side (That’s where I was camped). As for the Toyota with the seat welded on the frame rails… well that was fun too.

The thing that people need to remember is to tread lightly, have respect for the land and other 4x4ers, and clean up your mess when done. Leave your attitudes at home. We all enjoy this sport and the last thing anyone wants is confrontation among 4x4ers.


I've been staying out of this discussion, mainly because I'm probably a hell of a lot more passionate about ppl throwing out trash, camping around families with children while acting like buffoons, etc.

I know for a fact we were the last ones to leave our particular camping spot at Ardbeg last year, and we walked around for over an hour picking up trash (ours and everything else we could see). So I have to beg to differ about your memory. Now according to my memory, when we left your group was burning a large pile of cans, metal debris (doors!).

I also have to disagree about avoiding confrontations with other wheelers at all costs. If I see someone tossing shit out on a trail I'm using too, I'm either going to tell them to pick it up, or pick it up myself. (Which is usually the latter, because the last thing I want is to get in a fight with some drunk, and lets face it, a lot of the people tossing out trash are drinking on the trail, and the trash is often beer bottles)

We need to confront irresponsible behavior on the trail, because it has long term effects on whether we can return to the trail or not. If our group is at Greens with a bunch of others, I can guarantee nobody is going to remember seeing Maja, myself and the other girls picking up old trash to put in our own rigs, but they will remember that a bunch of Zookpower trucks were on the trail, and trash was left behind. I don't want my favorite spots closed because we were too polite to hurt the other wheelers delicate feelings, too politically correct to tell them to pick up their beer bottles, because their carelessness may get a trail taken away from us. Even in our own group, we're more than ready to crawl up someone's ass if they drop so much as a butt on the trail.

But you're right about the bitching, bitching here gets us nowhere. But good dialogue and some accountability on the part of every group that goes wheeling and camping will make a big difference. If every group left a trail cleaner than they found it, I'd bet there would be a LOT less cottager-complaints to the MNR.

[vanbdan]

Originally posted by Mud Runner
I’m not a member of Obsessive offroad Club. But I do know some of the members.

You guys sure do bitch about them allot (Insecure in your rides maybe ? hehe… it was a joke ). Yes last year they brought furniture to the campgrounds! So what... I thought it was a great idea, and kinda funny.





(They also brought a welder a compressor and almost every tool needed to repair people’s rides) Plus If I remember correctly they did a better job of cleaning their campsite up than you guys did.



The potato gun was harmless and no potato’s reached the other side (That’s where I was camped).

You are right about the potatoes not reaching the other side-because they were using every thing in site rocks,beercans etc...I know this because I saw it...

As for the Toyota with the seat welded on the frame rails… well that was fun too.Please explain how you weld a piece of livingroom furniture safely to anything...this was pure stupidty

The thing that people need to remember is to tread lightly, have respect for the land and other 4x4ers, and clean up your mess when done.

Leave your attitudes at home.
Sorry I dont leave my attitude anywhere I bring it with me.It fits in my Zook,because Its not that big.

We all enjoy this sport and the last thing anyone wants is confrontation among 4x4ers. I guess I should pipe in here...yes so what they brought furniture,I agree,but did they bring it back home ?-no,insted they burned it.Did they bring all the burnt metal home,I dont know,as I left early They must of brought a shop vac with them too then,because When I left I brought back 3 full garbage bags full of garbage...not all of it mine.

[admin]

Just to make it clear: we haven't banned anyone from Obsessive from posting here, or prevented them from joining. I'd have a lot of respect for the guys that were actually AT Ardbeg if they'd own up to the part they played in getting Black Lake camping banned on long weekends. Hell, why not hope that they'll go to the MNR and pay a fine to get the campgrounds opened again? I'm not at all interested in hearing from their party buddies what great guys they all are. Nobody is attacking people on this thread, just attacking irresponsible behaviour. I doubt any of them that were there that weekend would be interested in debating the issue, because that would mean they'd be identifiable and accountable.


Obsessive Offroad Club Code of Ethics (http://www.obsessiveoffroadclub.com/ethics.html)

[GearHead]

i love this photo from the OBO site

http://www.obsessiveoffroadclub.com/group%20photo's/DSC00007.JPG

hey guys......cans dont burn.
lol

later
steve

[MacAttack]

Hey guys...

Very nice site here!!

Just thought I'd pop my own 2 cents worth into this thread about the Black Lake ban.

I've been driving into Ardbeg, past Black Lake and into Bolger where myself and many good friends have been cottaging for the past 10 years. We've always waved and said hello to the campers at Black Lake when we see them. One year, we even pulled out a guy who had sunk the tire of his Ram so deep into the beach he couldn't move. Things were fine and everyone was friendly. I've never had a problem with the road being torn up by the ATVs either...the winter tends to do most of the damage anyway. But things changed a little a few years ago when Black Lake got REALLY busy and people started getting disrespectful of the area and the cottagers passing through. One year, we witnessed a bunch of A-holes pouring the contents of their Porto-potti into the lake!! When we stopped and yelled out to them, one guy gave us the finger and his lovely girlfriend hurled a beer bottle at our 4X4! The next year we went in really late...it was about 3AM when we hit Black Lake and there were hundreds of people around, fires blazing and 4X4s blocking the road. We stopped and talked to a few people and asked if they could move their trucks so we could get through...they told us to go "F" ourselves! Not wanting to start a brawl (which we would have lost considering it would have been 100 against 5! :) ), we went back to town. It just so happened when we hit Ardbeg, the OPP was there and stopped us. After they determined we weren't drunk etc, we told them what happened and they escorted us back in. Needless to say, the trucks got moved. The garbage and filth left behind that we saw when we came out was unbelievable. Simply disgusting. So when the ban was announced for long-weekends, I personally was happy. It's a shame that idiots have to ruin it for the good people who are there to have fun and respect the beauty of Ontario's lands, but something had to be done.

I hope the ban continues long enough for the idiots to stay away and that the good folks come back.

:beer:

[LEEMANYJ]

OK GUYS, IT'S LIKE THIS!

Obsessive Off Road Club DOES NOT have members that deface; abuse; wrck or otherwise act like aholes!! When we announced that we were going to ardbeg that weekend in particular, some people got wind of it & cam up on there own. That does not meen that they are a member of Obsessive! You can't label a whole club because of a couple of asses that decided to camp with us!! There is a reasone that they did not have an "obsessive" decal on there rig! I have worked very hard to get this club to where it is today, and I don't appreciate people bad mouthing my club because of a bunch of drunkin' aholes!~ As far as the tree goes, the guy cutting it down works for the mnr & I think he knows when a tree is dead! We have been camping in ardbeg ever since on "off" weekends with no problems. I have always made sure that our campsite was clean! (we even swept up with a f'n shop broom the one long weekend!) What people that are not members do with there shit after we leave is not our responsability and it;s not fair no black ball usd because of it! If you read the notice you will see that part of the reason for the closure is "damage to wetlands" a& snomobile trails. hmmm. wonder who that was.... I seem to recall a certain zook with 33 or 35" boggers ripping the shit out of the land wherever he could! It is so easy to point the finger @ everyone else.. try taking some responsability yourselves! Obsessive has been up there for cleaning weekends with northern lights and tread lightly, buty never saw 1 member of zook power. Why????? Anyways I said my peace. Contact me by email if you please lee@osgkw.com if you want to discuss further. Sorry for the late reply but I could never log on in the past. We do abide by our "code of ethics" those who don't are kicked out of the club! How 'bout we work together to get ardbeg opened to us all instead of sitting & bitching about who did what! THAT IS WHAT HAVING THE STREANGTH OF A "CLUB" IS ALL ABOUT!

[admin]

LEEMANYJ - Your posting privileges were suspended for flooding pending Mod intervention.

Chill.

[vanbdan]

OK GUYS, IT'S LIKE THIS!

Obsessive has been up there for cleaning weekends with northern lights and tread lightly, buty never saw 1 member of zook power. Why????? Anyways I said my peace. Contact me by email if you please lee@osgkw.com if you want to discuss further. speaking strickly for myself,I have never heard of a clean-up weekend up there,but would be interested in helping out ,maybe post up a link to us about it when it happens.Or e-mail me and I will post it up vanbdan@hotmail.com



How 'bout we work together to get ardbeg opened to us all instead of sitting & bitching about who did what! THAT IS WHAT HAVING THE STREANGTH OF A "CLUB" IS ALL ABOUT!


van :hubba:

[GearHead]

I have been thinking of Ardbeg lately.
If you notice the ban was for long weekend though 2004.
Personally I hope that the bad remains in effect for 2005 for camping.
I think in the long run this will keep the area open to offroad traffic.
I would rather see this ban extended and the area open then simply a no 4x4 policy.

like MacAttack I have been wheeling in the Ardbeg area for 8-10 years. I also noticed a change at the black lake site.
Funny that it happened a "few" years ago. this is about the time that the road into black lake was improved so the Hydro One and local cottages had better access to the area.

With the better road came those that were coming to black lake to "party" as opposed to those who came to wheel.
I think some of these people are not even interested in off-roading they just come for the drunken idiot fest.

Years ago you could not get anything that was not 4x4 into black lake, you never saw people hauling in crap like furniture to burn, you just did not have the room. You could not get a truck and trailer in there to tow your rig in. they were parked in town and you drove you rig in. people brought what they needed and took it out with them.
With easier access came pickups and car trailers, and more crap.

I just loved not having room to camp because the whole site was filled up like a parking lot. not just one truck and one tent per person.....now it was truck/trailer/4x4 and other crap.

Everyone used to get along and people were friendly to the cottages, This is VERY important
With the cottages using the road more often who do you think the mnr and the local municipality are going to side with. People that own property in the area and pay taxes, or us the people that camp on crown land for "free".

LEEMANYJ------ note to self----if they camp "with" you then they are part of your group, if you don't want to associate yourself with assholes then DON'T
not being hostile here but if you are working hard to make a better club just not having stickers on rigs does not cut it.
if you are on a club event and there are non club members in your group then guess what, their actions will reflect on your group as a whole.


OK my rant is over.

In closing
Keep Black lake closed to camping on the long weekends, this will keep that area clean, locals happy and the Ardbeg area open to wheeling!!!

later
Steve

[Canadian_zuk]

This is why we like Lingham Lake. No idiots. Just hardcore trail.

[MuddMachine]

LEEMANYJ........ posting priveleges are open for you. I deleted your other 2 posts cuz they were identical to your first post.


Obsessive has been up there for cleaning weekends with northern lights and tread lightly, buty never saw 1 member of zook power. Why?????

Every time we go wheeling we leave with more garbage than we brought. EVERYTIME! Thats why you dont see ME on your cleanups. We dont party like assholes on the trail and then dedicate a whole weekend to cleaning up our mess from the summer.

It's also kinda hard for yoy to convince me that the the tree you cut down in the dead of darkness, at midnight, was dead. Last but not least Uncle Don and I had an arguement with the group of you guys that were sporting "obsessive" decals about burning all your garbage before you left. I mentioned this on your site as well but never got a response. I'd say save it, besides, you're bringin up a dead horse that doesnt have a leg to stand on.

Later.

[MudRunner]

Hello Zook's

I have been an avid 4x4 enthusiast for many years now, and owned many 4x4's (sorry all Toyota’s ! Not knocking your zook's those little machines impress the hell outta me)

I finally Joined obsessive off-road club about 1 year ago. I had tagged along with the group a few times before deciding to join. The reason for joining was because I believe in the power of a GROUP as opposed to an individual.

Obsessive always tries to leave a good impression and follows the "Tread Lightly" Policy, We are active in many community events, and local trail clean up efforts.
4x4ing has gotten a BAD RAP because of a few assholes that ruin it for everyone. So as a group we try to better the image of 4x4'ers

I was not around nor a member of this club the year that you guys are talking about. But I was at Ardbeg last summer. We have weeded out some of the bad members and “Friends” from the club, and also do not encourage "Friends" and "Friends of Friends" to come to wheeling events, However we cannot stop them from showing up. It’s like a house party back in high school, All the sudden everyone and their brother shows up when only a few people were invited.

I can tell you this. Last summer at Ardbeg was much better. We cleaned up garbage on the trails whenever found, cleaned up the camping area, and tried to leave trails in better condition than we found them. We took our entire garbage home with us. No Furniture was brought and burned, no "Potato guns" were used, (Although that does sound like fun.... I haven’t seen a potato gun since I was like 15)

The only problems I encountered at Ardbeg last summer were THEFTS, someone (We think it was one of the kids on dirt bikes) Was stealing stuff left right and center. And someone left an abandoned Chevy on the trail she was stripped of all the good stuff and left there to rot. <<< NOT GOOD And we couldn’t move it.

In closing, I think this battle between these two clubs is STUPID. We should all be working together to better improve the image of this sport we all love, Why don’t we put this shit behind us and look towards the future, Maybe we can plan a CLEAN UP EFFORT and have our two clubs show up, along with some much needed GOOD Press.
Or set up a charity 4x4 event, anything really. WE ALL need to work together here, whether you drive a Heep, a Toy, Chevy, or a Zook,

Michael

www.mudrunner.ca

BTW Lee didn’t mean to post 3 threads, Your forums are weird in the fact that new post go to the TOP of the page not bottom like most.

[MudRunner]

Oh shit there are TWO MudRunners.

Well Im MudRunner, not Mud Runner


www.mudrunner.ca proves it

[MuddMachine]

BTW Lee didn’t mean to post 3 threads, Your forums are weird in the fact that new post go to the TOP of the page not bottom like most.

Lee's second post started with "I'll say it again"........ so that was intentional, the third was just a copy again, whatever.

Try your user control panel cuz my page reads with the new threads at the bottom.

Potatoe guns are great fun, dont get me wrong. Im not the one who has to be convinced, the cottagers do.

I started this thread, take note tho that the stuff I mentioned, in question was also seen by everyone at Ardbeg EXCEPT for the garbage burning at the end. We were the second last ones out of there. I saw, I bitched.

[MudRunner]

Well I can say this. As long as I'm a member with this club, I will try my hardest to make sure CRAP like this doesn't happen anymore.

As I stated earlier I wasn't at ardbeg the year in question. But I know that a few members are no longer members of this club for doing stupid crap like this.

Anyway. Lets just leave this behind us.

BTW I love your site. and some of you guys have WICKED machine's,

I think I may have to get a Zook when my toyota Dies (Which will probably be another ten years and another 500,000 K.. good ol toy)

[longy442]

Great to see the olive branch extended. Nice kiss and make up.

[vanbdan]

Great to see the olive branch extended.

I second this,and hope to see you at ardbeg,if I ever get there again.

van :hubba:

[extremekickin]

Well I think that even I have mad a mistake befor and if the people in zookpower cant forgive and forget then that makes use just as bad so now i know why I dont join clubs becouse NO ONE know how to get allong anymore. And the people that are doin the stuff in question arnt worth talkin about and I'm sorry But I dont feel the hole group should be shit on for some people.
P.S and dont tell me that no one here has ever cut down a "good" tree before.
As far as I'm concerned You are peddy and just get along. :thefinger

[MudRunner]

Well I think that even I have mad a mistake befor and if the people in zookpower cant forgive and forget then that makes use just as bad so now i know why I dont join clubs becouse NO ONE know how to get allong anymore. And the people that are doin the stuff in question arnt worth talkin about and I'm sorry But I dont feel the hole group should be shit on for some people.
P.S and dont tell me that no one here has ever cut down a "good" tree before.
As far as I'm concerned You are peddy and just get along. :thefinger

Hey When we going wheeling ? I got the Toy all ready to go. I still wanna see what your "little" Zuki can do. You never call me to come play along :( ANd I live right around the corner from you. BASTARD

[Mud Lite]

So if he lives around the corner from you, why don't you knock on his door instead of hi-jacking this thread that just won't die?

[dede]

Hi
I would just like to make a couple of comments about the issue of garbage and partying idiots.I just started going up to Ardbeg a couple of years ago, my boyfriend has been going there off and on for years so he was bragging to me about how nice and freindly it was up there.Well the first year i went up we were allowed to camp at Black Lake, yes it was nice but we had a bunch of young idiots that were right beside us that thought all it was for was to drink,curse and make a mess.Last year we were a couple of kilometers away camping with other respectful people.They are right about things being left including beer bottles on trails.We personally only take cans that we can bring back with us because as a 4X4 person we know how expensive the tires and some of the equipment is for the trucks.We also respect the cottagers that go there.If everyone sticks together and cleans up after themselves i think the trails will always be open.And yes there is talk about no camping or 4X4 being allowed at Ardbeg if it continues the way it has been going.This info was from a gentleman that owns a place there.