Cage, do you have one? If not...why?

[Mudslug]

The pipe and tube thread got me thinking, if you don't have a cage why? Personnally I have been busy with making other stuff to get my own cage done but I will be doing mine soon.

Is it cost? if so whats the magic number that would make you buy one (seriously)
Is it time? We have all been there boy but is this really an excuse?
Is it lack of tools? A zook power bow and arrow bender rental program is a possiblity.
Is it lack of knowledge? Would you be interested in a crash cage building seminar done by a guy who has been at it forever?

Whats the deal kids?

[zc911]

Would you be interested in a crash cage building seminar done by a guy who has been at it forever?



that would be friggen cool

[gobig]

i think for me it is time,money ,the proper tools needed,etc
so i guess all of the above.
but if some one took me by the hand and showed me the tricks,etc, i might be farther ahead on making one.
i thought about just buying one off the internet,Rocky Road,Calmini, and numerous others, but not sure how good there are as to me building one to fit and suit my needs.
just a though, any input here would be great.
anyone here just go and bought one?
if so, how did it fit? was it cost effective?
better to build one your self?

[szabotage]

I'm right in the middle of building a cage using all the original hoops. I'm using the stock main hoop in it's original location and the rear hoop (only avail. with the LWB's) up front around the dash with some minor notching.

no bender needed, all the rest can be done with a welder and a chop saw (and the add'l steel tubing).

mike

[Mudslug]

Hmmm I see, so its actually all the factors.

What do you guys think is fair for a bolt in?

[Fullload]

Before May 24 it was a time thing as well as the fact that i was helping build two ther trucks.
Now it is the fact of a place to do it with someone who has time to help with it. I'm not really in the mood to waste a bunch of money on trial and error with the cost of steel these days. I would rather someone with me that can show me what do do and we'll have at it.
I have access to a full shop with space and all supplies needed ( Mig, Stick, Tig,) but know only how to mig for now.
I am going to use pipe to offset the cost and there is only one person i know with a tube bender. To ask for something of that nature to borrow, regardless of how well i knew the guy i would not lend out(if i owned it) so i would never ask.
I would not be interested in a bolt in design as per the thickness of the suzuki body as is. Even if you plate it and through bolt the plates i still think that the body would let go under impact.
I'm in favor of a full six point welded to the frame. I have tough rocker guards welded to the frame already that would suit perfect for 4 of the points and two rear frame rails for the last two.
If someone said to me bring your truck up and we'll bend up a cage i'd be there in a second. if they said to offset,labour cost and shop material cost (welding wire, welding gas, grinding discs etc) I'd really consider that as well, but a price would definatly have to be addressed first.
There are a couple of guys that said they would help me with my cage but both are now time restricted, so mudslug between now and suzican i will be exploring other options.

[Mudslug]

Gotcha, I was going to be bending up Scottys cage soon and I was thinking about making triples of everything but seeing that the price of steel is so high i wasn't sure if anyone would be interested after the fact.

If you want we can work something out...

[screech]

If someone were to make a simple cage for themselves and made an extra not welded ,just all the pieces, I would be interested .I could do the install and welding myself, that way they would not be liable for selling a cage ,it would just be a bunch of pipe.

[MuddMachine]

Gotcha, I was going to be bending up Scottys cage soon and I was thinking about making triples of everything but seeing that the price of steel is so high i wasn't sure if anyone would be interested after the fact.

If you want we can work something out...

Mudslug...... ya know what would sell ? - A main hoop. The rest of the cage people could fannagle. But the main hoop is an issue. Make a bunch of main hoops but dial them in so the dont take up legroom. I'll buy one.


Edit...... why I dont have one ? Cuz of everything mentioned. And let me tell ya.... it's curbed my driving style and I dont like that. The LWB seems to be my weapon of choice for tackling the nasties and bein succesful. But ive been holding back cuz alot of these types of obstacles Id like to pull off are the type where you are commited once you start. Basically speaking I can get into alot more trouble right now....but... I need a cage.

[vanbdan]

because my fawkin zook doesnt flop in the driveway. :bang:

[Depot]

Depot Style not withstanding - there is no excuse for not having a minimal cage at least. Even if its just an extra hoop over the windshield area to keep ur nogin safe. Even if its just mounted to the body, its still better than nutin.

As far as pipe vs dom.. who really cares? Use what u got and what u can afford. They both work great and a few extra pounds here and there dont make much of a difference especially when ur talking about ur safety.

i use and recomend pipe. Is cheap, strong, easy to work with, princess auto bender is more than enough to make anything u want and above all else it is strong!!! I beat the snot outta my rig last week and the cage didnt even tweak. My bush bar was the only casualty and that was due to a full endo at speed and the fact that it wasnt tied in to the rest of the cage. it didnt collapse or crush - it folded in towards the hood right above the welds but it did its job and saved my engine. Cant say the same about my snorkel and air box though.

my 2 cents


D

[TheSarg]

Cage. definate. Dyno ran Suzican last year with me and constantly told me after that she, as a passenger would feel tons more confident about the truck with an integral cage.

As fer going to a seminar and finding out more info from a guy in the know? count me the hell in!!!!!!!!!!

[Mudslug]

Wow, I just looked into the seminar thing and after a fair hourly wage and renting a proper place to do it the cost is a wee bit prohibitive...$250/head for a full day with lunch, there goes that idea.

[Fullload]

because my fawkin zook doesnt flop in the driveway. :bang:


Or the pickering pits !!!!!

[vanbdan]

Or the pickering pits !!!!!

Thats Raglan dumbass!!! :hubba:

[xamtex]

:D built my own external cage recently.http://www.difflock.com/discus/messages/8/29552.html?1085180912
http://www.difflock.com/discus/messages/8/29329.html?1084211311
it works too,i put it over this weekend and lived to tell the tale. :D

[Depot]

here comes Depot the sour puss.... looks pretty but I question the effectiveness of it... I dont see any diagnal supports... all i see is a box and boxes are weak at the corners and edges... I can picture a minor side rollover pushing the entire rollcage over... u'll wind up with a diamond shape instead of the square. and considering how close the cage is t the body, it very well may wind up causing more damage to the body then if it wasnt there.

while Im sitting here cutting up ur buid lemme point out 2 more thins...

1 - as i think it was Mudlite said it, when u bend pipe or tube it will keep bending easily unless u truss it.

2 - the frame mounts... its hard to tell in pics, did u reinforce the frame any where u welded the cage? It would really suck to see chunks of ur frame get ripped out in a rollover and then u have a lethat weapon floping around instead of a cage protecting u. zuk frames aret even 1/8 inch think.. they need to be plated to add strength to avoid ripping out chunks...

i dont wanna rain on ur parade.. it is a nice looking cage and above all else, it is better than nothing. I just wanna make sure its as safe as u think it is and for all the readers to learn.

gl

D

[xamtex]

i made the sliders and they are welded to the chassis and bolted to the outriggers also.i rolled it on its side in a stream friday night and it all held together,the only problem i had was that it fell drivers side down with the window open and i got wet!!
http://www.difflock.com/discus/messages/6/34029.html?1086654854
there is a pic on this thread somewhere.
this site was a 6 hour drive for me in the zook,in scotland.good fun though. :D

[xamtex]

the white 410 in this thread has a cage similar to mine and has been rolled several times and no damage whatsoever to the zook.i am happy with my cage,it is now tried and tested and works.if it falls off a 20 foot cliff then maybe im in trouble but only time will tell!!!
http://www.difflock.com/discus/messages/11/31090.html?1086262069
:boot:

[Super J]

Mudslug...... ya know what would sell ? - A main hoop. The rest of the cage people could fannagle. But the main hoop is an issue. Make a bunch of main hoops but dial them in so the dont take up legroom. I'll buy one.


Second that! :beer:

[Mudslug]

Ok, what would the people be interested in? The rear hoop and two b pillars? Or the rear hoop, a roof hoop and two down bars?

Would it be best to keep them long and not notch them? Or offer the notch as an extra?

What do you want?

[szabotage]

personally I'd only need the main hoop round the windshield. all the straight tubing I can handle on my own

[Mud Lite]

What about liabiltiy issues? What happens if what you sell doesn't hold up under a roll? Do you have liabilty insurance in case someone sues you?
;)

[szabotage]

make a disclaimer or call them johnson rod paperweights instead of cages, i dunno is that legal?

[Depot]

sell em as asthetic add-ons.. "not a life saving device" but if ur gonna undertake this venture, u gotta make em good.. not heep quality!

D

[Terranaut]

A sticker on the bar that read...
Not intended as a life saving device .
always wear your seatbelt.
do not remove this sticker.

[Mudslug]

I would be selling bent bars, not a cage. Plus as a limited company I cannot personally be sued for anything only the company can.

[screech]

That is what I said on the other page , just sell bent pipe, it's up to the people who buy them what they want to do with them

[Mudslug]

I am a grave robbing mofo!! I am digging this bitch up and going into production!!

Vanbdan, I need to borrow your zook for 3 days next week is that OK?? ahahah!!

Seriously I need a Zook to template up some bent bars that are not to be used as a life saving device....anyone...Bueller?

Anyone intersted??

[vanbdan]

I am a grave robbing mofo!! I am digging this bitch up and going into production!!

Vanbdan, I need to borrow your zook for 3 days next week is that OK?? ahahah!!

Seriously I need a Zook to template up some bent bars that are not to be used as a life saving device....anyone...Bueller?

Anyone intersted??

You know its cool dude.Call me We can work it out!

van:hubba:

[Superzuk]

Chris, I have a SJ410 you can use for a template....

[Zuklin]

Mudslug... any plans for the LWB's? I am pretty darn close to you and will be in the need for 'non life saving' bent pipes for my rig.

[Mudslug]

Ya the problem is I need to come out and measure it up. I am going to charge cost of tube and a set fee per bend. So the main hoop would be the cost /foot of tube time the number of bends (2) and then thats the cost. The LWB will be more cake but only because of the length.

Wanna set it up, email me or PM me.....

[zc911]

you never kept any drawings of mine?

[Mud Lite]

The local guys here seem to charge 10.00 per bend. It's hardly worth buying a bender.

[SamiFlyer]

The local guys here seem to charge 10.00 per bend. It's hardly worth buying a bender.

Out of curiosity, how many bends are there in your cage? You would need to have 100 bends in order to justify the cost of a bender! But we want to split the cost three ways so if you have 33 bends or more per truck then that's our justification.


Sean :cool:

[Mud Lite]

Out of curiosity, how many bends are there in your cage? You would need to have 100 bends in order to justify the cost of a bender! But we want to split the cost three ways so if you have 33 bends or more per truck then that's our justification.


Sean :cool:

Spliting it 3 ways is the only way to make it affordable for sure. The average 6 point cage would have say about 10-20 bends depending on if you keep the stock B-pilar and don't integrate the seats into the cage. If you are going this route, take a look at a notcher too.

[SamiFlyer]

Spliting it 3 ways is the only way to make it affordable for sure. The average 6 point cage would have say about 10-20 bends depending on if you keep the stock B-pilar and don't integrate the seats into the cage. If you are going this route, take a look at a notcher too.

I'm planning to do a tube front clip and an exo so I would come close to justifying a bender all by myself! Add in stuff like custom crossmembers and bumpers and it adds up fast.

The notcher is a good idea too. I'm sure it beats a drill with a hole saw or an angle grinder.:(


Sean:cool:

[Mudslug]

I don't know about that. I got to see the hole saw notcher set up and I have used a nibble notcher and I still like the chopsaw and grinder method. In a few weeks I will be using a plasma (its coming baby!!) and we will see how that works.

$10/bend? Hmm, considering the time it takes to lay everything out I would loose on that cost....still rowing the bender no hydro yet.

ZC911, I lost your drawings....can't find them anywhere and it sucks!!

[SamiFlyer]

I don't know about that. I got to see the hole saw notcher set up and I have used a nibble notcher and I still like the chopsaw and grinder method. In a few weeks I will be using a plasma (its coming baby!!) and we will see how that works.

$10/bend? Hmm, considering the time it takes to lay everything out I would loose on that cost....still rowing the bender no hydro yet.

ZC911, I lost your drawings....can't find them anywhere and it sucks!!

Tried the grinder method when I made the roof rack for the RadioFlyer. It sucks big time and that was only 1" electrical conduit! I tried the plasma but 1" was just too small and was awkward. I'll try on a 1.5-2" diam. piece and let you know how it goes.

Maybe I'll just build my own notcher!


Sean :cool:

[Mudslug]

Not trying to be a doorknob but could it be the way you were doing it? I do 1" to 2" with a chopsaw and grinder and I can do a fit in about 5mins no problem....

How are you doing it?

[zc911]

if you want to come back and take messurements just give me shout

[SamiFlyer]

Not trying to be a doorknob but could it be the way you were doing it? I do 1" to 2" with a chopsaw and grinder and I can do a fit in about 5mins no problem....

How are you doing it?

I'm too impatient to spend 5 minutes on one notch! :thefinger If I was using something heavy I would have had no choice but after trying two notches in the 1" conduit, I said firetruck that! I cut my pieces 2" longer than needed and flattened the ends with a vise and a hammer! Drilled a few holes into the flat spot for roset welds and did it that way.

http://www.gno.edu.on.ca/Simon/Toughguy/toughguy/truck/roofrack6.JPG

Looks a little shitty but it's much stronger than I ever expected it to be. Last May long weekend I packed it with all the heavy stuff we were carrying. Six 5gallon fuel cans, a 35" spare and some other stuff. We got the truck airborne and I bent my front axle but the roof rack never flinched.

http://www.gno.edu.on.ca/Simon/Toughguy/toughguy/truck/RF%20packed%20and%20loaded.jpg


I would want a notcher simply because it's alot cleaner than grinding and it's accurate. They are not that expensive either. One of the Pro-tools ones is $200 US. http://www.pro-tools.com/hsn500.htm

But if the plasma works well enough on the bigger stuff, I might just use that instead.


Sean :cool:

[zc911]

i thought a notcher was gonna be slow, and panfull too lol. But acutally it cuts through like butter, and makes you look good :D

[Mudslug]

So I will dig this thing back up again.

I took the time to measure, template, cut a prototype, cut it up to check fit, fart around with it and then pull a test cage off my numbers.

Everything loks good so far and I was able to pull four cages off of the steel I had in stock.

So the question now is would the people who don't know but interested in a write up on notching tube with a chop saw?

[vanbdan]

Not me,'cause when I get a cage next year,you are doing all the notching,and welding,while i drink beer and pretend to learn.:D Just kidding.I would like to read it and learn it,so i can help you when you do my cage--next year.I am a fountain of information,and strive to learn more.

van:hubba:

[Canadian_zuk]

So the question now is would the people who don't know but interested in a write up on notching tube with a chop saw?


Write er up buttercup. I've always used either the drill press and a bi-metal hole saw, or the grinder with a zip disk. Please educate us mere mortals, show us the secret techniques of the great and glorious Mudslug. :D

How you do it buster.

[longy442]

Hey Fulload turned me on to this thread the other day. Its got a nice right up on making cuts with a chop saw. Save some computer work and check this out.
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=456800

[Canadian_zuk]

This is good.

http://snip.awardspace.com/

[Mud Lite]

That works! I like the whole eye ball approach too. But then I can waste all the Pipe I want then.......LOL

[Mudslug]

Great and glori...WTF cram it in your poop pipe mister!!! :thefinger

The Pirate write up is really good, I never saw that one before......no sense in reinventing the wheel....Cool, more time for me to drink beer then.