Can you Turbo your 1.3l??

[Mudslug]

Disclaimer: If you attempt this and you blow up your motor I am not responsible, this is for education purposes only...

Well the answer is yes but there is some work involved and if you cannot cut, weld and tune a motor run away from this thread screaming like a little girl with your hands above your head. OK, I have done a ton of research and this is for carbed motors only, fuel injection is another can of worms.

First you will need a turbo, not just any turbo will do you need one with a built in waste gate so you can start off with a small amount of boost and work your way up. Plus the waste gate bleeds off extra pressure so your motor does not go BOOM!!!! I looked on ebay and found this little number which looks perfect foe a urbo set up
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7905328744&category=33742

As we all know exhaust gasses run a turbo so you will need to plumb your turbo into your exhaust, they are several lines of thought on this but I will go with my own and say you must run the entire exhaust manifold outlet pressure into yuor turbo, splicing a single header tube into a turbo will work but you create an unbalanced motor becuase one cyl will be working harder than the other....just my opinion if you disagree I don't care.

So how do we build a manifold? Well I typed this out a million times and the best way to get my point accross is to show you. If you click on the link you will see what I am talking about

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33742&item=7905323911&rd=1

As you can see the manifold is a simple thing to build. How? Take your stock manifold and trace out the mounting face on a piece of sheet steel, cut it out using a grinder, plasma, whatever and you have a base that is ready to bolt up to your head. make sure you choose a thickness that will not warp with all the heat you will be using to cut it and then when under load. Run all of your header tubes into a collector suitable to bolt up to your turbo, know what car the turbo came off of would help here becaust the pipe will most likely be avaiable at the local Midas so the fab time will be less.

More to come....

[zc911]

cool, good basic info, the hard part (i think or though) is fuel.
I also think a water cooled turbo would be a nice setup for offroad since it has to do alot of ideling
Anyway looking forward to the next installment :)
hmmm i wonder if Eagle and JE make pistons and rods :D and how well the sidekick block would hold out to boost :D
:beer:

[Mudslug]

So, we have a turbo, slick little manifold.....now what?

OK, the turbo has an input and output the input need cold clean air run a tube out to the fender...roof what ever and put an air cleaner on it, turbos hate garbage flowing through them....

The out let gets run into a tube the goes to plenum that attaches to the top of your carb. You will need to spend some time here making sure that you have a perfect seal to to the top of the carb. A reinforced Sammy carb topper will work but the seal will need to be in perfect condition...

So we have a turbo, manifold, plenum and its all looking cool but how the fawk do we tune this mother? This is actually the hard part and knowing a motor is the only way to do it right. We are going to be forcing tons of air down your little carb and making your motor create power.

Getting the fuel air mixture right will be the hard part, the carb will supply the fuel, the turbo supplies the air. In order to get the carb to be able to supply the fuel as needed we need to make a few changes. First the float bowl, we need to make sure this stays as full as possible without drowning itself at idle in order to have enough fuel onhand when you drop the hammer. A leaned out turbo motor has the life expectancy of a beer at Suzican. Second the mixtures we need to make sure they are good, how? by watching and listening to the motor...we all know the signs. Black smoke too rich, plugs with black electrodes and white ceramics to lean...etc etc this may explain http://www.fitchfuelcatalyst.com/techinfo/tuning.html

Adjust in more fuel as needed, the Sammy carb should be able to supply enough gas the the amount of boost you want to feed into it.

Third timing, we need to start at about 5-10 TDC and then advance from there. Turbo motors are finicky, advance it until you here slight detonantion at the hight end and back it off a bit. We want to make sure there is no detonation, that is the killer.

more to come

[Mudslug]

Where was I? Turbo, manifold, plumbing....ahh yes fuel pressure.

The stock pump may do the job but I doubt it, you will need a electric pump and regulator. Play with the setting until its right. The bowl keeps full, the carb isn't drowning and you can run at full throttle without it leaning out at a low boost setting. Once you have tuned the motor to run low boost and its running well time to go up in boost.

Ahh the wastegate, a simple little dohicky that lets of excess boost usually by way of a spring that is designed to hold a valve shut until a certain PSI is reached and then it opens and releases the boost to slow down the impellar and reducing the boost. The tighter the spring the more pressure it will hold so back it off as much as you can so the boost will be minimal at first adjust it upwards slowly adding fuel to the air mixture as it goes up. A boost gauge would be a good idea here so you can see what type of pressure you are forcing into the motor.

So how much boost do you pump in? I would think 5-8lbs would be as far as I would go. The Sammy is tough but with stock head gaskets I don't know

Hmm oh ya, here is some reading to convince you that you don't need to buy a turbo set up...build it!!

PVC Turbo runners on this puppy at 14lbs of boost!!
http://www.fitchfuelcatalyst.com/techinfo/tuning.html

Homey turbo
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/8408/split.html

Got questions? read here
http://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php

what did I miss? ask away...

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/8408/split.html

[zc911]

so your telling me there is no issues with running a trubo on a carb'd motor?
From yuor reading it souds very easy.
Are you sure you can supply the engine with enough fuel under boost, yet still have it idle without bogging?
On a fuel injected car it;s very easy to add a trubo setup, Bigger injectors, pigger pump, piggy back computer to control the bigger injectors if your stock ECU cannot, tune for a nice a/f ratio of 12, 12.5:1 at full throttle and your off (well more but you get the idea)

Oh how about a blow off valve?

[Mudslug]

Well how does a carb work? The vacuum created by the motor sucks air through the venturi which releases a spray of fuel into the air. The air fuel mixture remains constant in the idle circut and the motor idles. When you step on the gas the accelerator pump introduces a stream of pure fuel into the top of the carb and the RPM's go up. When the RPMs go up the amount of air passing throught the venturi goes up because of the vacuum the motor produces, the more air passing through the more gas is released by the jet in the venturi and the carb supplys the fuel to the air to keep the RPMs high....

So all you need to supply more gas is to get more air past the venturi. Considering a turbo is forcing the air past the venturi instead of allowing the motor to suck it in the ventrui will supply the fuel as needed ....to a point!! You will need to adjust the fuel mixture, you may even need a solenoid attached to a WOT switch to supply the extra gas at high RMP...

Did I explain that OK?>?

[Mudslug]

oh ya to this point
"Are you sure you can supply the engine with enough fuel under boost, yet still have it idle without bogging"

There is no boost at idle the carb supplies the fuel as per the amount of air it is seeing going past its venturi....kinda like a MAF sensor does but way low tech.

blow off valve? huh...thats the wastegate.

[Mudslug]

Ahhh poo, this is the right link to the 14lb PVC turbo kit

http://www.toohighpsi.com/BudgetTT/tthowto.htm

[Terranaut]

A blow off valve is not a wastegate.
A blow off valve discharges the pressure between the turbo and the intake to the free atmosphere so I don't think you want one with a carb because it will low out fuel laden air .
The blow off valve lets the pressure out so when you release the gas a bit to shift the resistance against the propellar stays relative to the exhaust push on the impellar and the turbo won't slow down and will remain at full boost potential when you re open the throttle.
I would turbo a efi engine rather than a carb.
You will need to get the ECU custom programmed and larger injectors but I think it would be easier(not on the wallet) than a carb.
Look at the turbo Firebirds from the early 80's.
Shitty at best .
I am sure there is a kit to turbo a 1.6(I am working so no time to look now)
copy it with off the shelf(wrecker) parts .
Just my $.02

[KAC]

Terranaut is right about the blow off vavle, of course I'm running a whole different animal a diesel.The biggest problem with modifying it is the exhaust temp. Anyway happy boosting. :)

[Terranaut]

Here we go .
http://wildcatent.freeyellow.com/zookmods/
Kinda shitty page but its a start.

[szabotage]

word through the grapevine is that DSM engines will mate to toyota trannies and I know some people run the toy tranny/ dual t'case setups. if this is so I'm sure a talon 2.0 TSI turbo motor will work great. something to consider rather than modifying the 1.3.

[Superzuk]

what the hell is a DSM engine? where can I get one, and how heavy, and how much torque/hp?

[Mudslug]

Oh a diverter valve...sorry ya, a BOV is not that big of a deal because we are not running gobs of boost but is can be added without too much consternation. Plus it would be cool...

The mid 80's turbo cars were crap because they used small turbos and were choked by emissions crap. Use and over sized Turbo and tone it down and you will get the HP you need.

This was just a quick "you could do it this way" write up for cheap HP. Do I have a Turbo sitting in my garage waiting to go? Yes, its on top of the bolt bin next to my welding gloves. When? As soon as I have the time to build the manifold and tune it....

Super, DSM is DSM - Diamond Star Motors
A joint effort by Mitsubishi (three diamonds) and the Chrysler Corporation (penta-star). The vehicles were the Eagle Talon, Mitsubishi Eclipse, and Plymouth Laser. The '94-and-up Mitsubishi Galant is also assembled at the DSM plant in IL; previous Galant's were assembled in Japan. The Eclipse and Galant (since '89) share the same platform.

[zc911]

Well you have defintaly got me interested now :D

A coupl mroe days and my car will be back ont he road. The truck will get the tiny rust spots cut out, rear disk, and now instead of some crazy stupid swap, i think a turbo sounds very nice.
I am gonna watcht aht auction and see how high it goes

[szabotage]

here's a link to the mitsu/toy/sammi install;


TURBO!!!!! (http://rz-products.com/WAYNE/UPDATES/UPDATES.HTML)

[Nemesis_y2k]

Well you have defintaly got me interested now :D

A coupl mroe days and my car will be back ont he road. The truck will get the tiny rust spots cut out, rear disk, and now instead of some crazy stupid swap, i think a turbo sounds very nice.
I am gonna watcht aht auction and see how high it goes

May I please advise you offroaders against turbo? Here's why. Turbo runs off exhaust gasses, and can run up to over 800+ degrees, just like a CAT does. Being the offroader that you are, and driving in cool mud/water will most likely crack your turbo. Turbo's spool off your exhaust gas, so it restricts lower end torque until the turbo spools, you get higher peak torque numbers with a turbo, but at a higher rpm. You need your low end to be climbing rocks. You need a steady curve, not one that slaps you in the back of your seat at 2500rpm, and bogs at 2400... A turbo will cause you loss of responsiveness down low, and too much power up high if you ask me. You're playing on slippery terrain, not on streets.

A mildly tuned supercharger on the other hand, can sit on the intake side and much higher than a turbo(to protect against water) and gives you a VERY steady power curve and obviously, more torque, and not only as a peak number, but throughout your low power range.

This is going front what I've learnt and seen tuning cars, I've only started to work on my zook recently... let me know if any of this is false. This is correct to the extent of my knowledge :)

Cheers!

Roby!

[Depot]

totally agree... i was looking into turbos on my zuk and my speed shop guy saw some of my vids and told me flat out... u splash water on that puppy when shes hot and CRACK!!!!!

Supercharger is the way to go if u wnna go that route.

D

[Mudball]

I cracked a turbo turbine housing on my honda because I drove into some rain after a hard run.

I could hear it going *ting ting ting, pop, ting, PAP! ting, ting*

That was only a bit of water.. I could only imagine what total submergence would do. *insert "GAH!" emoticon here*