Towing

[stress]

how do most of you guys&gals strap down your vehicles on a trailer,do you strap it down by compressing the suspension or by just pulling down on the axles???? which do you find is better??

[Depot]

I prefer to use chains and bear traps over straps - never have to replace em. But definatly grab the axels, not the body for the simple reason.. if u hit a hard bump and ur trailer does a little bounce or ur zuk does a little bounce - if u grabbed the body or frame, it is possible (although pretty unlikely) for ur strap to loosen enough to fall off when ur truck compressed down after the bump. U can defeat that by cranking the hell outta the strap but then ur just nuking ur springs - imagine driving 6 hours with ur zuk springs flattened by the strap.. when u get to suzican, ur zuk is 4 inches lower :bawl:

Mind u, I do go a bit overboard when strapping my trucks down - i have 2 chains coming from each axel (one per corner) with 2 bear traps on the front 2 chains but seeing as my trailer has no sides on it, wouldnt want a zuk sliding off as im clocking 120 around the corners.

last but not least, watch ur weights.. for those of u that hadnt heard, i got ripped a new one on may 24 coming back from ardbeg... my rig was overweight, didnt have yellow stickers on my truck, or my trailer and had a turn light out = $1000 in tickets.. despite the fact that I am NOT a commercial hauler - due to the fact that my truck trailer and load exceeded 4500 Kg - i was deemed to be equivelant to a comercial hauler - big rig... I had to get a CVOR, log books, pre-trip inspections.. all sorts of crap.. this year they went crazy on the little guys with trailers.. so be warned.. do ur homework when u use a trailer.


my 2 cents

D

[stress]

how did they know you were overweight??did they get you to pull onto scales??i might make a trip to the dump scales to get weighed before the weekend,im sure they will be out in full force this weekend.

[Depot]

yep, they pulled me off the highway.. gave me grief for not having secondary devices on my load binders (ie tie the handles down so they cant POP open), more grief about not having locking clasps on my trailer safety chains, etc.. didnt gimme any tickets for those but listed all the deficiencies in the inspection report, then told me to follow him to a weighscale wehre he weighed the trcuk and trailer and then just the trailer then nailed me with a $300 ticket for being overweight...

quick overview and do not quote me on this cause Im still not 100% sure of all the facts yet but heres a blurb...

if u have black plates on ur vehickle, look at ur registration papers... on the vehicle portion it will tell u what ur vehicle weighs (from the factory with no fluids or cargo or nutin in in). My # said 2973 kg. On the permit portion of ur registration it shows u what u r registered to carry/pull. if u pay $72 ow whatever it is per year for ur sticker, then u r registered for 3000 Kg... the second u change ur reg weight to more than 3000 kg u pay more for ur plate sticker every year... thats the money grab. Im registered now for 8000 kg and my sticker costs me around 350-400 per year. i forget exactly.

now get this... the officer was nice enough to explain all that to me and to tell me this... with my reg weight at 3000 Kg and a listed weight for my truck of 2973, the split second I got my fat ass into the truck i was overweight!!! WTF??? this is the way the dealership registered the truck - how was I supposed to know anything about this crap? my truck, empty (no load, no passangers, 1/4 tank of diesel) with me in weighs 3400 Kg. despite that stupid 2973 #.... i was destined to get nailed with this pile of dung.

well, hopefully someone else can learn from my misfortune... when u start getting up past 3000 KG total truck and trailer and load u need to up ur registration status... once u break 4500 KG u need yellow stickers on truck and trailer..

Im still not sure how the CVOR thing works... what level that kicks in at.. if anyone does know for sure please fill me in cause Im fighting all these tickets tooth and nail!!! i'd rather sink a G note into my zuk that give it to our government!!

l8r

D

[Depot]

OK.. heres the info - i spent the last hour whatever calling the CVOR office, MTO, and the enforcement branch.. this is the current info for all of u that tow a trailer r a zuk!..

here are the tel #'s if u wanna call em urself..

CVOR - 1-800-387-7736
Enforcement branch of MTO - 416-325-2645
Ontario Trucking Accosiation - 416-249-7401

Step one - look at ur registration papers for ur vehicle.. right at the top of the green paper beside ur plate # it says pas or com.. if ur a car u prolly have pas n there, if ur a pick up truck u'll have com. Com means commercial - black liscence plates.

As long as ur registered gross vehicle weight is less than 4500 KG (that the # on the plate portion of ur registration papers) u do NOT need yellow stickers nor do u need a CVOR. (mind u if ur truck is registered as comercial with some business, then u need the yellow stickers anyways like landscaping or work trucks or roofing trucks etc)

So if ur gonna tow a trailer and ur total combined weight is less than 4500 kg (yes 4499 is less), u do not need yellow stickers, u do not need a cvor but U DO need to up ur registered gross vehicle weight from the 3000 its probably at now to a number large enough to cover ur truck, ur trailer and ur load in both.

For those of us that are over 4500 kg.. welcome to pain in the buttsville..
U need yellows on ur truck and trailer (annual inspections).
U need a CVOR
U must do a pre-trip inspection b4 every trip
U must carry a log book for ur rig...

notes about the log book... now read this very carefully... If ur destination is within 160 km "as the crow flies" from your departure point, u do NOT need a log. So lets say ur leaving Toronto heading to greens... thats about 200 Km.. but its only maybe 150 as the crow flies - direct line screw the highways, no log needed.. its your responsibility to prove that ur destination is within that 160 mark to weasel outta a log book.

pre-trip and logs are only neccesary when u have ur trailer and load on... u do NOT need to do this crap everyday b4 u goto work. I'll be hitting the enforcement officee tommorow to pick up a copy of the pre-trip inspection procedures and will post when i have it.

furthermore, if u got ur load on, u have to hit the weighscales too!!! Weighscales hate pick-up trucks cause we clog em up and most times they will tell u to bug off but legally u have to go in if u have ur load on.

CVOR's are free - no cost there but upping ur gross weigh makes ur plate sticker more expensive.

FOR THOSE OF U THAT FLAT TOW UR TRUCKS!!!!!!!

lucky ****ers!!!! a vehicle riding on its own tires being pulled by ur truck with a tow BAR (not chain or rope) does NOT count towards ur vehicles gross registered weight. Go figure.. try to be safe and put ur toy on a trailer and they nail u with rules to hell... slam a bar on it and its as if it doesnt exist as long as u have a good bar and proper safety chains that cross each other and safety latches on those chains, ur good to go....doesnt matter if ur towing a zuk with D60's and a v8 with a neon - ur good to go. go figure.


All this info is straight from the "enforcement office". if u have any questions or concerns call them directly urselves.. i am not responsible for my opinins or any facts i may have represented above specially if they change the rules around again.

that is all for now.. im actually curious to hear from u guys with the single trailer.. what u weigh in at when u add it all together and what class ur in.

l8r

D

p.s. web page info - http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/

[zuzuisu]

YEP the same thing gose over here in AUSTRALIA but you need a in cabin braking setup for GVM over 750kg that is trailer plus load 2000kg you need a breakaway set up where trailer breaks stop it if it comes off your tow car,all things on or in must be tied down or covered so it dont blow a way.
Me i tie down with 4 chains to the axels let the body rock and roll and out of gear (dont f##k any thing that way on drive line):D

[Depot]

ur gonna love this... so i goto the MTO enforcement office on Kennedy and 401 today to get pre-trip forms and ask more questions only to be offered a $390 ticket for not doing my daily pre-trip inspection - holy fawk!!! i politely explained to the guy who i talked to yesterday and what they told me - his response - they were wrong...

According to this MTO enforcement officer - u know the guys that run around in those white and greeen cars pulling big rigs over... once I register my vehicle for over 4500 KG, i need a cvor, and i must do pre-trips everyday. further more - if either my truck or my trailer individually breaks over 4500 kg I need an "A" liscence - jeezes - everytime i goto the dump my truck weights in at more than 4500 kg with a load of trash...

but u gotta love how the system works... he can not advise me unless he seez my truck trailer and load and weighs em all but if im over any of my limits he cant let me leave and I cant unload any part of the trailer there for any time. What he will do is since one vehicle on the trailer is liscenced for the road (fulloads) he'll weigh me in with both, if im over, let me unload full's and weigh again and if i pass then, i can leave and full has to drive his zuk outta there.. not too bad.

btw - this guy tells me that flat towing a vehicle behind u DOES add to ur registered gross vehicle weight contrary to what i was told yesterday.

So like I said - dont count on my "opinions" expressed here... i will continue to research this problem untill I have it figured out with actual legislation to back me up

l8r

D

[gordZuki]

ask them for a copy of their regulations book

[Depot]

Ok kiddies. heres what u all want to know - got the law and regs to back it up...


My set-up requires me to register my truck at over 4500 kg, that by definition makes me comercial - yellow stickers, pre-trip inspection EVERY 24 hours and log books if Im going more than 160 km as the crow flies and not returning within 15 hours... ce la vie - cant do nutin about that.

The whole bit about if ur trailer is over 4500 kg and u need an A license is crap... its not what ur trailer actually weighs, its what ur trailer transmits to the ground through its tires WHILE still hooked to ur truck. When i got busted my truck and trailer weighted in at 7700 Kg but the traielr itself weighted in at 3220, now thats 24 feet of trailer with 2 zuks loaded to the tits with stuff.....

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/trucks/regulations/trailers.htm

THIS IS WHAT MOST OF U NEED TO KNOW!!!! that stupid little link - its only good for light duty trailers.

For those of u that flat-tow the same applies as that link but with a small exception... ur zuk is not considered a vehicle while in tow.. its considered a "device" sorta like those big compressors or welders u see being dragged behing constructin trucks... it must be properly lighted like a trailer (and yes, magnetic tow lights are good enough) and must weigh in aat less that 2800 Kg - 6173 pounds... Ok.. whos got a scale neer em? go get ur zuk weight and tell us what it cmes in at jsut for curiosity sake. but ur "device" does not need a plate on it.

now dont forget to take into account all the crap u load into ur zuks when u tow em.

One last tid bit.. if ur driving a truck that is registered as comercial - whehter its registered for 4500+ or not, jsut plain comercial - it'll have a yellow sticker on it (or it should) - u know like work trucks and vans.. the trailer u pull behind it must have a yellow sticker on it too!

so if you boroow the company p/u that has a yellow sticker on it, ur trailer must have a yellow on it too despite the exception from that link above - or so this is what i've been told today

For anyone that in interested in more detailed info about cvor's and registering for over 4500 kg - drop me a line and I'll send u the info i got but seeing as 99% of yah dont fall into that catagory,im not gonna bother posting all the tech shit on that area.

Hope this helps


l8r

D

[mightymouse]

what are the weight restictions if you hav blue plates? Ie. any LARGE SUV.

[Mudslug]

Hey its MightyMouse!!!

How are things T man!! When you coming back out offroading again?

[Depot]

my understanding is that u do not have any set limits on blue plates but do not quote me on this... I can give u names and #'s of ppl to call if u want more info.. i dont have time this week to attack that Q.

pm me if u want to tackle it


l8r

D

[mightymouse]

so would a extra cab pickup truck, that seats five(seat belts) qualify for blue plates? then you would have no weight restrictions.

[Depot]

Originally posted by mightymouse
so would a extra cab pickup truck, that seats five(seat belts) qualify for blue plates? then you would have no weight restrictions.


definatly not... u have a box - which allows u to transport cargo - even if its only a 5 foot box - that box by definition puts u in commercial class on ur registration - black plates only.

the split second ur vehicle has any box, or payload area that is part f the vehicle that can be used for transporting goods (whether u do or not) makes it black plates. thinkgs like SUV's and minivans which can go either way are dependant on the how the owner registers em. that why when u see for example a safari van - if it has windows all round and full of seats, its blue plate, if its solid all round with cargo space in the back instead of seats, its black plates.

D

[drtysuzuk]

we are going thru all the same shit as you rite now. Our company does medium comercial construction.We have pick-ups, vans and a 1 ton duallie they are all covered under our cvor . None of them are registered over 4000 so they dont require the yellow sticker. my own work truck is a2500HD chev with a duramax, i,m pretty sure it wieghsclose to 3000kg if not more.my boss registered them light so he could save on the license. i usually tow my zook around on our 7 ton float but now im getting a little parinoid.ISit the total wieght of truck trailer and load cannot exceed 4500kg?Id sure hate to go back to flat towwing We also run tandem dumps ,the green hornets are brutal in the peterborough area get inspected at least once a month. also one more thing to think about , any violations seatbelt ,speeding etc go against your cvor so you want to be extra carefull.

[MuddMachine]

Originally posted by drtysuzuk
we are going thru all the same shit as you rite now. i usually tow my zook around on our 7 ton float but now im getting a little parinoid. Id sure hate to go back to flat towwing ,the green hornets are brutal

Scott DONT BE SEEN hauling yer zook on that trailer :yike :yike :yike They'll fry yer ass so bad you'll never eat jerky again, lol ! IMHO, go back to flat towing or get another trailer.

Just for the record, at Domtar I was talkin to the dude from Cooper's Cranes and he told me the story............. cant drive it before dawn, on a 2 lane highway. So buddies givin him the gears about him bein on the road too early and shit. But buddy says "NO" cuz he was on a 4 lane highway and he was NOT speeding and by the time he got to the 2 lane the sun was up and blah blah blah, so the MNR prick spends 15 minutes on the phone with headquarters figurin out what time sunrise was at and doin the calculations and all the shit..... in the end he did nothing wrong, so he left and arrived an hour and a half late. Green Hornets we call them ? More like the fukn Gustapo. This may be a bit OT but just pointing out what bastards these guys can be.

[Depot]

with the exception of the light duty trailers i posted a link to above.. ur truck trailer and loads weight get added together and they can not exceed what ur vehicle is registered for. If ur company is being cheap by registering em low then u run the risk of getting nailed with overweight tickets, non-yellow (if ur total breaks 4500 Kg), etc.

example - my neighbour has a 1 ton dually dump. it registered for 4000 kg so he does pay a bit more than 72 $ per year for his plate sticker. he does have yellows since this is a company vehicle - its my understanding that as a comercial vehickle, no matter what hes registered for, since it is for actual comercial use, it has to have yellows. actually, hes registered for 3999 kg.. saves a couple bucks not breakin 4000! i know for a fact that the truck weighs in near 3800 kg empty. I;'ve had occasion to use this truck and put some loads into it... some of em as high as 2000 kg.. if I had goten poped driing that thing, i woulda gotten nailed at least 300 smakers for being overweight plus nailed for no cvor, and no log books since my total weight woulda been over 4500 kg..

that 7 ton float is well outta the light duty trailer exception rule.. so it and ur load gets added.. u will be way over 4500 Kg cvor class and way over whatever the truck is registered for... and those green doornails dont buy the "I didnt know all this" excuse

hope this helps


D

[drtysuzuk]

thanks guys. i guess i already knew the answer, just hate the thought of towing my boggers down the road or i could build a lighter trailer...something else to do,it never ends!

[Depot]

if ur gonna flat tow.. pump up ur tires to their max - specially boggers...

my 35's are 16 inches wide.. max PSI is printed 30.. so i put 32-33 psi when i have to drive it on pavement (legally of course lol) with that much air in em, and being on a 10 inch wide rim, there is less than 3.5 inches of rubber actually touching the ground - dead center of course. That really minimizes on the wear and tear factor but does take that much longer to air down when u hit the trail and it does take a while to air em up b4 u hit the highways but it will save u soo much $$ in rubber its worth it IMHO.


D

[gordZuki]

could always get a set of stock rims and put some firefly tires on them ... for flat towing i've got my set all set up

[Fullload]

I'd rather flat tow my boggers than swap tires for a two hour tow. Maybe for a run to Calabogie yes but not for a day run. Talk about wasting time and energy. I am usually too tired to drive home let alone swap tires and then drive. I'm not that concerened or cheap. They are a hard rubber. Just makes alot of noise.

[michigan-zook]

WOW after reading this tread , i feel for u guys , in the US as long as your hualing your own stuff (not for $$) you can about drive any truck/trailer you want , i have 78 chevy 22foot motorhome and pull my zook on a 16foot car hauler,this weighs about 12,500 pound and nothing special for plates or licences,if im hauling with my 88 gmc 2500 i would say it weighs in at 9000 pounds,the trucker cops generaly look at big rigs and box vans and leave us little people alone

[drtysuzuk]

well thats what its like to live in "the land of the free" ,soon up here wheel need a special licence to wipe our asses!I think we all no when were towing safe or not, unfortunately to do it legally sometimes is cost prohibitive. I still think a private person towwing a recreational vehical should not require a CVOR, its nothing but a money grab!!

I,m whining cause know i hafta flat-tow:bawl: :bawl:

[Depot]

as stupid as this may sound.. CVOR's are free - registration is free, there is no direct cost associated with it cept for ur plate renewal sticker being more expensive depending on ur registered weight - ok so I pay 2.5 times more for my sticker than most of u do.. then again, i do drive a large pickup so everythign is a little more expensive anyways.. besides, its a yearly fee s bite the bullet once and u have 364 days to recover! :)


p.s. If u have an RV - u can tow up to 4500 KG without any cvor, special liscence or increasing ur registered weight... but it has to be by definition a "mobile home" to qualify for that excemption.. If anyone want more info, i can post stuff on that - and it doesnt matter how much ur rv weighs either! guess they do leave "the little guy" alone in one isolated case!


D

[drtysuzuk]

went to the metal candy store today and picked up the steel to build my new trailer, it,ll be a 12 footer with tandem axle.i figure with the steel 565lb and axles i should weigh in @ close to 1000lb,s. the trucks reg. for 4000kgs and weighs 2700kg so that leaves me with 1300kg or2000lb approx. anyone know how much a sami weighs?

:roll: :roll:

[Depot]

keep in mind this tidbit....

"where a trailer transmits to the highway a total weight of 2,800 kilograms (6,173 lb.) or less, that weight shall not be included in determining registered gross weight".

that 2800 KG is what ur trailer "transmits" to the road through its tires...WHILE still conected to ur truck.... makes a big ass diference! Ur tow vehicle is takin a huge chuck of weight onto its own axels... its not as simple as taking the weight of ur trailer and the weight of ur load and adding it up... u kinda have to put it all on and weight it - go back to the link i posted on page one and it'll show u how to weigh it to get the proper #'s.

to give u an idea of perspective.. my 24 foot trailer with 2 zooks weighed in at 32 or 3400 Kg - i forget now... for transmited weight!

may I suggest that when u build ur trailer, have both axels braking - im not sure of what the rules are for that stuff but ever since i converted my third axel to a braking one, it made my life a lot more comfortable on the highways.

D

[vanbdan]

hey Depot,thanks for the info,and the links.One of my crews at work just got pulled over by the "green hornets"and got weighed in at 6330kg.But only registered for 3000kg.$210.00
Also no cvor=$325.00
for a total of$535.00 in fines.He only had a DitchWitch sticher and a gas powered compressor on it,but was overweight by a long shot.Funny thing is the mto told him that if he was another 1000kgs over he would need a "A" licence?He also missed the light out on the trailer,no strapps on the sticher:yike ,and never mentioned a day book,only pre trip inspection.I geuss we got off lucky,considering we have8to13 trucks on the road,and not properly registered.So Iknow where my boss and myself will be on monday.MTO here we go!

[Depot]

the rule about A licence in these cases is if ur trailer transmits over 4500 Kg to the road via its own axels, then u must have an A licence. Theres other reasons for an A but thats what ur hornet was reffering to in this case.

L8r

D

[zc911]

only thing i ahve found out about brakes on a triler is that if the GVWR for teh triler is over 1400kg then it must ahve brakes. Doesn;t specify how many, jsut that the trailer must be equipped with it;s own braking system

[TheSarg]

rules this rules that, bloody money grabs, fawkin flat tow the suna-bitches and flip the bird at the gov!!!!!!

:upy: Liberalist pigs!!

Anyways thats my 2 cents

[MudZuki]

How does this affect car dollies?

[Depot]

car dollies are considered "a device" and as such, do not require seperate plates or anything special as long as they are towed in a safe manner and properly lighted.. they fall into the same catagory as the "light duty trailer exception". If u read back in previous posts, it splains all that stuff. All the same weight limits apply to a device as they do to a light duty trailer so dont think just cause its a "device" that u can tow whatever u want. ur limit is 2800 kg i think - read back to page one, its there somewhere

gl

D

[Superzuk]

Ummmm... Depot, my buddy Rob and my buddy Larry both had to register plates for their dollies.....

[Mudslug]

Super there was no plate on the dolly we used last weekend....

[Superzuk]

I know... it fell off... Remember, it is Rob's dolly... Look at the shape it's in... anyways, Rob would not lend it to me till it had a plate on it for suzican, so he registered it Friday morning, and I took the plate with me to suzican in Brian's ****...

Anyways, there is a plate with it, it just fell off...

[Mudslug]

True,

Go tow bar...you don't need to deal with that crap.

[MuddMachine]

Guys, think about it........ when wheels start flyin off trucks and trailers become disengaged from a pintle on thier own and start killing people, what do you expect to happen ??? You wonder why the MTO is up our ass ? While all this shit is all a major PITA, I understand why it's going this way.

[Depot]

As much as i hate to admit it, I must agree with MTO to a point...

Some of the rules are far fetched, obscure, not clear or even easy to get clarity on but they are there for a reason.

I worked for numerous landscaping companies year round and the crap we pulled, the equipment, the trailers, the safety aspects.. it wasnt even funny. last year MTo started cracking down on us and they spread to cover all "small" towing guys with good cause for the most part. 2 of the companies I worked for in the past got shut down this year by MTO and deservadly so.

i do not agree with the CVOR crap, the yellow stickers or the registered weight crap cause thats is all a big money grab. The yellow stickers entail a brief overview of the truck/trailer, check tire pressure and torque on lug nuts and a whopping bill of 100-200 bucks. there is no "real" safety inspection there, there is supposed to be but 99 times outta 100 its just some mechaninc filling out forms. registered weight = pay us more for ur yearly sticker, no safety issue there. CVOR is just more big brotherism.

But when MTO comes in heavy about safety chains with locking clasps, secondary devices on ur ur chains or straps, proper lighting, proper brakes and so on, I back em up there and unfortuantly the way the system works, that goes hand in hand with all the paperwork and money grab side so overall, I guess they're there for a reason and I for one and gonna grin and bear it and dance with the music they are playing.. after all, I got better things to wastte my life force on than fighting stupid rules that at the end of the day are really meant to keep others and us safe and put more $$ in unkle sams pocket.

btw, for those of yah wondering, those 4 whoping tickets i got may 24 that totalled over 1000 bucks, i got em beat down to one ticket of "failing to display device" (aka no yellow sticker on my truck) and a whopping 200 smacker fine so it looks like i get to keep my licence for one more year :D

l8r

D

[vanbdan]

glad to hear about the tickets being reduced depot.

[TheSarg]

the ultimate tow vehicle. Zuk's arent much bigger heh