ram 2500/3500 what's the diff?

[frwinks]

both are crewcabs, non duallies, same motors, 6spds.....so what's the difference....hard to tell from the autotrader ads:roll: :question:

[extremekickin]

both are crewcabs, non duallies, same motors, 6spds.....so what's the difference....hard to tell from the autotrader ads:roll: :question:
Suspensions. Halling weight. the 3500 is like the 2500's biger brother. And if Im not mistakin the braking system is biger on the 3500. And you might want to look at the axles they MIGHT be biger too but I dont think so. :brows:

[Zuklin]

I found this... i didnt read it word for word but it lookd like it had some info...

http://www.turbodieselregister.com/hdlaunch/hdlaunch.htm

One quote from this link was...

"As far as I could tell, the only difference between the 2500 and the 3500 is the spring package. Everything else looks identical."

Cheers

[zc911]

yup pretty sure it;s just the rear springs, and depending on year, cab lights

[frwinks]

fukn eh then :D :D so the registration, MTO stickers, etc would be the same between the two models? Last thing I want is to get into that whole yellow sticker, scales, trip logs,etc BS:roll:

[vanbdan]

Are you using the truck for personal,or Comercial.Personal,then dont worry about all the bullshit,untill you start hauling great big trailers,and then go read Depot's thread over and over about trailers,and the "green meanies".

Also,what truck are you looking at buying,and why...Do your reasearch before you buy.Diesel,or gas,4x4,or 4x2,what year...Did you know that some 2x4's,are rated with a heavier towing capacity than 4x4?Also,a 2500 series is rated to tow more than a 3500,this has to do with different packages,ie.4doors,wheelbase,4x4,etc.check all over the web,and do the research.

good luck,I love my '05 Dodge HD 4d.4x4.CTD.SB.
van:hubba:

[frwinks]

your truck is what I'm looking for...just a year or two older so I can afford it:D

[zc911]

your sticker will be more expensive than a regular truck.
scott93ho has an 03 3500 SRW 6spd 4x4
He is over the sticker weight limit with an empty trailer and a passanger.

[techno_farmer]

I have the 2500 series. The only difference I know of is max towing. Everything else should be the same less suspension would be heavier.

I have the Cummins in mine so the weight forces me to pay 124$ a year for the plate sticker. First chance I get I will be strinpping the spare tire and tailgate off to have it weighed again.

Cheers
B

[MuddMachine]

I believe with a 1 Ton you have to safety it every year. :yike

The front diff might be bigger on the 3500 too. Rims possibly different but Im not sure.

[screech]

I think the differance is 1000 :D

[szabotage]

I'm running 3500 series rear shocks on my longbody, 15 inches of travel I think, not the same as the 2500.

[zc911]

I believe with a 1 Ton you have to safety it every year. :yike

The front diff might be bigger on the 3500 too. Rims possibly different but Im not sure.

nope - only CVOR

nope

Rims, hmm i think they are both 17s

[Grumpy]

I believe with a 1 Ton you have to safety it every year. :yike

That's affirmative dude........unless it is registered for personal transportation only.......


Rims possibly different but Im not sure.

They are.......3/4 ton=8 bolt, 1 ton=10 bolt, and tire rating as well.......3/4 ton will be up to 8 ply tires, and 1 ton......10 ply, more money to replace, but if yer buying a diesel.....well you can afford expensive tires :thefinger

grumpy

P.S. not that I wanna start a war or anything but Dodge sucks, Chev rules!!

[TheSarg]

theres ways around the yellow sticker for a one ton ;)

cummins is the best diesel out there :thefinger

go for the 3/4 ton (2500) brakes n wear items are less expensive for repair.


6-spd fkn rawks!

Ive had both but my 1 ton was a 2wd dually and my 3/4 ton wuz a 4x4, personally i think 2wd is redundant for such a big truck in the winter, the longer it is, the more yer pushing that huge motor weighing down yer front end.


wait, u saw my black 3/4 ton winks buy one of those, u'll love it

[techno_farmer]

I agree with the Sarg, if you go the Cummins route get 4x4. That darn engine weighs alot!. This past hunting season my Samurai was not on the road so I took the 2500 Dodge out. I was stuck so damn bad, two Chev 3/4 tons could not pull me out and we had to get a 110 hp tractor to pull me out. It sucked that we were two hours back in the mountains and the tractor took 3 hours to get there.

Cheers

[frwinks]

6-spd fkn rawks!



I know....but it's fukn hard to find one used:rant: seems all I'm finding in the pricerange (or even out of that range) are all shitomatics:rant:
I'll find one sooner or later:crap:

[zc911]

you'll be waiting a while :( When i was helping scott93ho search, we checked out 3. 2 6spds and an auto. One 6spd was defenatly abused, the auto, well lets just say we over heated the auto even on the test drive, and he bought the other 6spd, and got a damn good deal, i think, too. It was pretty much mint, and other than the color(his is white and wanted the steel grey color) it had the options he wanted.
If you find the 6spd you want, you pretty much have to jump on it, they go quick

[TheSarg]

TMP has a 2001 4x4 2500 Xcab (Rear doors suicide open), black n silver, diesel, 6-spd with 208,000 km on it for $18,900. just got listed, ive bought tons of vehicles from them, so tell them i said they're azzholes :D

519-527-2291

[Lost Soul]

Checked at work, the 2500 normally comes with a 10.5 Rear axle and is available with the 11.5 as an option, I did not check what models came with the 11.5 though. The 3500 comes with the 11.5 as its regular axle.

[MuddMachine]

yup pretty sure it;s just the rear springs, and depending on year, cab lights

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[zc911]

excuse me mister know it all. You where worng on getting it cert. every year. That only has to be done with the CVOR. The cab lights come standard on the SRW 3500 truck, 03-up. To ge them on the 2500 is somthing like $400. Or you can move to the 3500 SRW for similar price and get them free
You seem like an angry person, it;s not my fault your short.

[MuddMachine]

excuse me mister know it all. You where worng on getting it cert. every year. That only has to be done with the CVOR. The cab lights come standard on the SRW 3500 truck, 03-up. To ge them on the 2500 is somthing like $400. Or you can move to the 3500 SRW for similar price and get them free
You seem like an angry person, it;s not my fault your short.

Thats ok, not my fault yer a dick. Look at my post and you'll see I used the words "I believe" + "might" and "possibly". Looks like I wasnt that incorrect anyways. Next time you reply with a 'no, no' give some details.

:thefinger

[TheSarg]

Well yer wrong yet again ZC, it has nothing to do with the CVOR it has to do with any vehicle thats over 4600kg requiring a yellow sticker, and the yellow sticker is only attained by getting the yearly safety.
It's not Mudd Machine's fault yer short either.

[zc911]

Well yer wrong yet again ZC, it has nothing to do with the CVOR it has to do with any vehicle thats over 4600kg requiring a yellow sticker, and the yellow sticker is only attained by getting the yearly safety.
It's not Mudd Machine's fault yer short either.

Which means CVOR no? You cna;t get a regular tag for somthing over that weight

[TheSarg]

What is the Commercial Vehicle Operator's Registration (CVOR) System?

In July 1989, and subject to certain exemptions, it became mandatory that all persons/business/organizations/etc. responsible for heavy commercial vehicles, register as a commercial vehicle operator. This system identifies commercial vehicle operators and facilitates the monitoring of on-road safety performance.

The goal of the CVOR system is to:

* improve safety for all users of Ontario highways while promoting dependable and competitive transportation of goods and people;
* develop effective compliance strategies with emphasis on safety and protection of the highway infrastructure;
* promote efficient movement of goods and people.

Who must register for a CVOR?

Subject to certain exemptions, all commercial motor vehicle carriers (operators) must register for a CVOR certificate. Each legal entity (separate corporation/company or individual) requires one certificate. For exempted carriers (See Section 16 of the Highway Traffic Act (HTA)), the ministry may create a CVOR record and collect safety data as required.

The types of vehicles include all heavy commercial vehicles (power units only), including vehicles leased, rented and owned, having a gross weight or registered gross weight of more than 4500 kg or a bus carrying ten or more passengers.

Exceptions: ambulances, fire apparatus, hearses and casket wagons, mobile cranes, motor homes, tow trucks, buses when used for personal transportation, empty vehicles operating under dealer plates or "in transit" permits, and vehicles leased for not longer than 30 days for personal use.




See if u knew whut the acronyms meant, it might not that be confusing for you. they come up with the 4500kg based on the GVWR or as they call it the "Shipping Weight"

[zc911]

so what are you trying to say?
If you register your truck for more than 4500kg, then you need the yellow sticker, then you need to get it cert every year.

When you go to the liscencing office, there are 3 levels of normal stickers. If you get the heaviest sticker without going to the yellow sticker (AKA CVOR)you wont need to get certified every year.

Like i said in my other post through, with an empty trailer and a couple passangers you'll be over weight should you ever be weighed.

i think i am typing clearly and in english

Alright, here is the GVWR for an 03
Maximum GVWR 2500: 9000 pounds
3500: 12000 pounds
When you go to the ministry regestir it with a GVWR of 4499kg and for personal use. It will allow you to get a normal sticker (although the price will be about $150/year) and ya no certification

[TheSarg]

k, never mind, u do whut u gotta do, i aint yer teacher, you will have to learn the hard way.

[Lost Soul]

so what are you trying to say?
If you register your truck for more than 4500kg, then you need the yellow sticker, then you need to get it cert every year.

When you go to the liscencing office, there are 3 levels of normal stickers. If you get the heaviest sticker without going to the yellow sticker (AKA CVOR)you wont need to get certified every year.

Like i said in my other post through, with an empty trailer and a couple passangers you'll be over weight should you ever be weighed.

i think i am typing clearly and in english

Alright, here is the GVWR for an 03
Maximum GVWR 2500: 9000 pounds
3500: 12000 pounds
When you go to the ministry regestir it with a GVWR of 4499kg and for personal use. It will allow you to get a normal sticker (although the price will be about $150/year) and ya no certification

I believe what he is trying to get accross is that you are not a Commercial Operator or Company, you would be using it for personal use. I would check on the Ministry web site for further clarification.

[TheSarg]

And that would be correct, but through my travels, the yellow sticker shows the vehicle is rated and certified for commercial use, the CVOR has to do with the driver/owner/operator NOT the vehicle, as you have to update your CVOR when there is a change in fleet aka vehicle. This was my point from the beggining.



Alright, here is the GVWR for an 03
Maximum GVWR 2500: 9000 pounds
3500: 12000 pounds
When you go to the ministry regestir it with a GVWR of 4499kg and for personal use. It will allow you to get a normal sticker (although the price will be about $150/year) and ya no certification

However, if yer bed is loaded or u have a trailer in tow, and go over 4500kg you are now a vehicle on the road that requires the yellow sticker and the CVOR and can get ticketed, as i beleive what is exactly what happened to Depot a few years ago.

[zc911]

k, never mind, u do whut u gotta do, i aint yer teacher, you will have to learn the hard way.


:roll: you guys. You know what believe, what you want. scott93ho did it, and so did another friend with his chevy.

don;t believe me fine, go get the yellow sticker, pay out your ass, do logs and get it cert every year

[zc911]

And that would be correct, but through my travels, the yellow sticker shows the vehicle is rated and certified for commercial use, the CVOR has to do with the driver/owner/operator NOT the vehicle, as you have to update your CVOR when there is a change in fleet aka vehicle. This was my point from the beggining.




However, if yer bed is loaded or u have a trailer in tow, and go over 4500kg you are now a vehicle on the road that requires the yellow sticker and the CVOR and can get ticketed, as i beleive what is exactly what happened to Depot a few years ago.

http://www.zookpower.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=1097

there is Depot's post, he got pulled over empty getting asked for the sticker.
YOU WILL NOT NEED THE YELLOW sticker (AKA CVOR) if you register it as personal use under 4500kg.
it will say on your registration what it is registred for, and it;s GVWR.
Yes you will take a chance, because depending on the load you will be over weight. Which if you read a few posts back i already posted.
If you are pulling a zook on a trailer it;s a chance i would take. If your pulling a goose neck with 2 trucks on it, they will get you eventually.

my dad has the yellow sticker/CVOR on his Ford dually. Another guy was driving it to the job site and stopped at the scales and got a $350 fine for not filling out the log book correctly. Do you want the hassle of hitting the scales on every trip?

[MuddMachine]

i think i am typing clearly and in english

Alright, here is the GVWR for an 03
Maximum GVWR 2500: 9000 pounds
3500: 12000 pounds
When you go to the ministry regestir it with a GVWR of 4499kg and for personal use. It will allow you to get a normal sticker (although the price will be about $150/year) and ya no certification

4500kg = 9900 lbs !!!!!!

Furthermore, a yellow sticker is a SAFETY, CVOR is not what people call the yellow sticker.

With a trailer and vehicle in tow you will be way over 4500kg/9900lbs.

[zc911]

[QUOTE=MuddMachine]4500kg = 9900 lbs !!!!!!
[QUOTE]

no shit, where did you see me doing a conversion? the 9000lbs GVWR was copied and pasted off a US site.
If a 2500 diesel only has a GVWR of 9000lb, why would that not be enough for a 3500 SRW truck (which is what frwinks was asking about) pulling a sammy?


and read depots post
"Finally, if ur actual wieght or registered weight exceeds 4500 Kg, then not only will u need a yellow for both truck and trailer, but u'll also need CVOR. Git ur shit weighed to find out fer sure where u wind up."

yellow sticker CVOR, hand in hand, same shit

[MuddMachine]

Depots truck was overweight by 25 lbs with him in it (registered at 3000kg)

So now add a trailer and a zook.


yellow sticker CVOR, hand in hand, same shit
No it's not.

[zc911]

depot's truck is a 4 door (or was it extended cab i forget ) long box dually.
And where did i say register it for 3000kg? i said register it for 4499kg, jut below "yellow sticker"

[zc911]

he even post the sticker levels i was talking about
i swear you guys can't read, or refuse to read i dunno

FROM DEPOT'S post

I would register ur truck at 4000 Kg at least.

Sticker prices -
3001-3500 Kg = $109 per year (not enough)
3501-4000 Kg = 124 per year (not enough)
4001-4500 kg = 139 per year (Register it here, no yearly cert, no scales, no CVOR)
4501-5000 kg = 154 per year (this is yellow sticker CVOR territory, scles, hassle cert and so on)

[zc911]

No it's not.

WHAT? how is it not? You get a yellow sticker, you need CVOR,
READ DEPOTS POST

I even pasted what Depot said.
I "think" on the sticker it even says CVOR

[MuddMachine]

If Depots truck wasnt legal with NO LOAD how can it be legal with a trailer and a zook, even at 4500KG ???

You'll need a yellow sticker for the TRAILER as well. A YELLOW STICKER IS NOT A CVOR.
The CVOR sticker is yellow but the 'YELLOW STICKER' is a safety and you need that for the truck and trailer. One for the truck, one for the trailer.

[zc911]

Depot's truck is definatly heavier than what frwinks wants.

We weighed an 03 3500 SRW diesel extended cab 4x4 6spd, a heavy trailer and my fat ass and the driver and misc stuff inside, it was 3200kg or 3300kgs. Is a zook more than 1200kgs?
I already said it would be over weight AT LEAST twice. But it is worth the risk. Depot has a dually and pulls a masive trialer. He is a sitting duck without the yellow.
my dad has a a 4 door dually and pulls a variety of massive trailers and it;s a business truck, he is a sitting duck without one too.

Oh and i dunno if it;s enough, but if it;s not he will be over weight with the 9000lb GVWR 2500 anyway

[zc911]

alright i did a little more searching and i was wrong, the 2003 2500 and the 3500 both a GVWR of 12,000lbs. So legally they will both need the yellow sticker/cvor

http://www.allpar.com/model/ram/ram-heavy-duty.html

i was even partially right about the only differnece bening the rear suspension and cab lights. The manual 2500 trucks have the 11.5 rear end

[frwinks]

:yike this thread delivers:D :D keep the good info comin' boys

almost makes me want to keep my mini truck:thefinger

[JoeDirt]

I had the same truck as depot has it was a 2001 version I had bought brand new.when I bought it,it had no yellow sticker and I asked the dealership why not? he told me there is away around it.I have no idea how but call the dealer and ask as I had no sticker and never had a problem.

[zc911]

Mud, sarg, nothing left to say? Whats that, i was right

[MuddMachine]

Mud, sarg, nothing left to say? Whats that, i was right


:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Lost Soul]

alright i did a little more searching and i was wrong, the 2003 2500 and the 3500 both a GVWR of 12,000lbs. So legally they will both need the yellow sticker/cvor

http://www.allpar.com/model/ram/ram-heavy-duty.html

i was even partially right about the only differnece bening the rear suspension and cab lights. The manual 2500 trucks have the 11.5 rear end

The 11.5 was available in the 2500 in Auto as well, it was an option!

Again CVOR is for Commercially used vehicles, you will not require it if used for personal.

[zc911]

yes you do, get the yellow sticker, you have to get the COVR there is no option.

[Lost Soul]

yes you do, get the yellow sticker, you have to get the COVR there is no option.

Well I have been through the ministry web site and the requirement for CVOR does not include any personal use. It clearly states Commercial vehicles, unless you run a company or use the truck for a commercial use, I do not see how they can nail you with a required CVOR.

[TheSarg]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Lost Soul]

Here is the statement from the Ministry Site.

Who must register for a CVOR Certificate?
Commercial carriers (operators) that operate in Ontario must register for a CVOR Certificate. Each legal entity (separate corporation/company or individual) requires one certificate. The Highway Traffic Act (HTA) defines an "operator" as the "person directly or indirectly responsible for the operation of a commercial motor vehicle including the conduct of the driver and the carriage of goods or passengers, if any, in the vehicle or combination of vehicles".

[TheSarg]

Who must register for a CVOR?

Subject to certain exemptions, all commercial motor vehicle carriers (operators) must register for a CVOR certificate. Each legal entity (separate corporation/company or individual) requires one certificate. For exempted carriers (See Section 16 of the Highway Traffic Act (HTA)), the ministry may create a CVOR record and collect safety data as required.

The types of vehicles include all heavy commercial vehicles (power units only), including vehicles leased, rented and owned, having a gross weight or registered gross weight of more than 4500 kg or a bus carrying ten or more passengers.

[zc911]

there you go, i just copied that and was gonna paste, you beat me too it.
The only way around is to register yor truck for a GVWR of 4499kgs and hope you don;t exced it, or if you do, hope you never get caught.

I think with personal use trucks getting heavier, they should revamp it.
If your truck is registed for personal use, and over 4500kg GVWR, you should jsut have to get it cert every year, and not need a CVOR or have to hit scales unless forced to by the MTO to check your weight.

[vanbdan]

Who must register for a CVOR?

Subject to certain exemptions, all commercial motor vehicle carriers (operators) must register for a CVOR certificate. Each legal entity (separate corporation/company or individual) requires one certificate. For exempted carriers (See Section 16 of the Highway Traffic Act (HTA)), the ministry may create a CVOR record and collect safety data as required.

The types of vehicles include all heavy commercial vehicles (power units only), including vehicles leased, rented and owned, having a gross weight or registered gross weight of more than 4500 kg or a bus carrying ten or more passengers.

Hello!!Is this thing on ?can you guys see the obvious... What is the first letter in this acronim(sp?CVOR)COMMERCIAL<NOT FAWKING PERSONAL!!

van:rant: :hubba:

[TheSarg]

Van, the whole point of this whole excercise is the fact that you are over 4500kg, you get treated as commercial, thus causing the yellow sticker and the yearly cert and the CVOR

SO DONT FAWKING YELL!

[frwinks]

Sarge, you said there might be a way around this whole cvor shit:roll: wanna pm some details mister:bringiton

don't wanna buy a fukn truck and drive around with half a tank of fuel, no tailgate, no spare and take a good crap before I hit the road with the zook on the trailer just so I pass the scales:roll: :thefinger also no fukn way I'm going through all that yellow sticker shit or turning into a sittin' duck:thefinger :D

[TheSarg]

You've been pm'd

here's a nice 1 ton ;)
http://videos.streetfire.net/Player.aspx?fileid=68E8D5CE-A759-4DC1-A292-35B542058192

[Lost Soul]

Van, the whole point of this whole excercise is the fact that you are over 4500kg, you get treated as commercial, thus causing the yellow sticker and the yearly cert and the CVOR

SO DONT FAWKING YELL!

Sarg is correct, just got off the phone with Jamie at the ministry and she informed me it is a weight thing, after 4500, you are into the CVOR, not sure how Sarg has to get around it.

[vanbdan]

Sarg is correct, just got off the phone with Jamie at the ministry and she informed me it is a weight thing, after 4500, you are into the CVOR, not sure how Sarg has to get around it.

that's hilarious,as I too was just talking Jamie...And yes,I was wrong.As above and as Sarge said Any vehicle either weighing more than 4500kgs,or being registered at 4500kgs or more requires a CVOR.

So do your homework,and if you have any questions,e-mail the mto from thier website,and they will get back to you promptly.
van:hubba:

[TheSarg]

Hey guys its all good that yer now informed, but MuddMachine has given alot to this discussion too, some credit should go to him and his knowledge, and quite Frankly, Depot (the TowMaster) schooled us on this last year, i guess me n Mudd were the only ones payin attention. :thefinger

[vanbdan]

I will go on record as saying that even though Depot schooled us,I was still confused,and still am confused in some aspects,but the whole thing that I was missing is that when someone says "comercial" to me it means buisness,or work.Ijust could not see past that,and now I know that CVOR is not limited to a work truck,so ya I have gone back and reread this thread,and will go back and reread depots thread,and well fawk i'll tow anyways.

van:yike :hubba:

[BIGZOOK69]

fwinks,,,get a 2500 or 3500,i got 04.5 with a cummins 600 series.its a monster and love it,tons of power.i just did 5"exhaust and a small lift,tires and rims coming soon.i would vouch for this truck,but you should be aware how much its costs to own,triple everything!!!oil change $120,tires(alot).bearings for axles $800,diesel $120 per tank,u joints (lots).you would only get 100k on the truck and 160K on motor for warranty..so be carefull..p.s keep in mind it still costs 1000 a month to buy and bout 700 to lease!!!!have fun!!!!

[zc911]

i guess me n Mudd were the only ones payin attention. :thefinger


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[scott03ho]

Hey Fwinks.


I picked up a 03 3500 SRW 4x4 last year. I didn't know about the MTO licencing until after i bought the truck. My truck weighs 7400lbs with me in it, and a full tank of fuel. That means at the with the 4500kg sticker (9900lbs) i'm only legally allowed to carry 2500 lb load (trailer + cargo). If you want to stay legal, you need to go over the 4500KG sticker - but then you're into CVOR. it depends on what you're towing. since i only tow a single car hauler, my trailer is always under 1800KG so it's not counted (read depot's post). If i get a double trailer, or an enclosed trailer i'll need to step up to CVOR.

Like Bigzook said - these trucks cost a LOT more to run than your standard 1500 Gas truck. Unless you're doing a LOT of hauling or driving you won't realize a big savings on fuel costs, becuase your maintenence costs will be much greater. Also - these ****ers take FOREVER to warm up on cold days.....and sometime if you're idling at a stoplight on those -20 days the temp guage will actually start to drop!

[zc911]

your cheap though :d your over weight witht eh sticker you have an no trailer :D
If you have your truck registed to 4499 KG and paid for the more expensive sticker you would be fine

[scott03ho]

your cheap though :d your over weight witht eh sticker you have an no trailer :D


Only if your fat ass is riding with me! :p

[zc911]

:thefinger

[gobig]

i have the 03, 2500,auto, and it is the same truck as the 3500, i have the big rear end, heavy duty springs etc.
i do not have cab lights, which leak anyway, but look good.
i have mine reg for 4500kg's right on the money , which means , no yellow sticker, and about 150 for the plate sticker at renewal.
my truck weighs in at 7500lbs, with me in it, and the tool box out bac, hitch and what not. all these things must be considered and added to the weight of the truck. the 2500 is more then enough for what you will ever put to it, and might be a little easier to find.....hahahaha, i know i have been there, just over a year to get one that wasn't beat to snot, or plowed with.
there where some changes to the MTO stuff lately, which you might want to look into. my buddy pulls dump trailers for his friend, personal truck, and some thign to do with the trailer now being added to the weight of the truck as well.
i haven't looked into this yet, and might have to , as i do tow alittle more now.you can reg your truck for what ever you want, on paper, but the truck can still only handle so much, and what the allowable limit for the road is too.
for what i have learned, is that the best way to get the proper info, about your truck and trailer, is to go down there and talk to some one, but make sure the trailer is empty, and make sure the reg weight is more then what the dealer has listed, because they all seem to have them reg at 3000kg's, which the truck empty with you in it is over that, and they will start writing the tickets from there.

[MuddMachine]

MTO is the major issue here, You dont want these guys getting onto you if you're not 100% legal. And they will get to you sooner or later and have a tendency to be 100% unforgiving.

:yike

[gobig]

that is so true, this is why it is important to just go down there and talk to them.
i did change my reg weight as soon as i bought the truck, and i know that i am good when the trailer is empty , which is the only thing i am sure of at this point 100%.
i know that alot of rules have changed recently, and they don't care if you know or not, they like to write out the tickets.
i hear you can get your a lic with a light duty truck and trailer if you tip the scales over 10,000lbs.
light duty truck, as in any 2500, 3500, 450, 550,etc. not sure if this just limited to 5th wheel type trailers or goose neck and tag alone type trailers , but this is just what i hear. i will be looking into that after the holidays as well.

[TheSarg]

My buddy got it with a crew cab 4x4 f-250 diesel and a pintle hook 24 foot flatbed trailer with e-brakes.

May have taken him 3 tries but he got it.

[BIGZOOK69]

i have 4 trucks,the dodge is personal and doesn't need a yellow sticker.the 3 other trucks are comm and need a yearly cvor inspection.as long as you pink slip is in your name NO CVOR....

[gobig]

i think you need to be a little more clearer on that one.
doesn't matter of what the pink slip says, if your hauling heavy stuff, and are over weight, you will need the yellow safety inpection sticker, and will need to be reg for the proper weight.if your towing your snow blower around town, with a snow bear trailer, and your reg for 4000kg's, then you will not need the yellow sticker .

[frwinks]

lemme take a crack at this....feel free to :piss: and :flthrow: :thefinger

going with 2500... register it at under 9900 lbs ( sticker is $140/year, no yearly inspection, no cvor shit, etc)
with the zook on the trailer, as long as it transfers under 6100 lbs to the road via its tires, only the tounge wt gets added to the registered wt.
since there's no fukn way my zook (even @ 82" wide:D) and trailer will transfer even close to 6100lbs I think it's safe to assme that even with full camping gear, etc I will never come close to the registered wt of just shy of 9900lbs:roll:
hope I'm not missing anything:bringiton

[zc911]

you got it right, same with a 3500 SRW

[MuddMachine]

Dont forget to account for your sorry ass, yer womans ass, yer fuel, food, booze, whatever goodies you have fer me :thefinger and anything else you might tote along, like all yer camp gear and stuff. That shit all adds up and it adds up quick.

[frwinks]

can't forget about my red canoe:thefinger think it's time to go on a diet and get one of those NO FAT CHICKS stickers :roll: :D

you think, even fullyloaded with gear, etc. it'll come close to reg. wt of 9900lbs??? I don't expect the tonuge wt be more than 450lbs

[Superzuk]

P.S. not that I wanna start a war or anything but Dodge sucks, Chev rules!!


Ummm, no, not quite. Cummings motors last 1,000,000 kms +, while the chevs have trouble hitting 350,000.

My opinion is that if you can afford the Dodge Diesel, why buy any other truck!!!

[TheSarg]

I will agree that the Duramax is a good motor, but i dislike the 6.5 that preceeded it plain ol sucked, the power and economy difference between it and the dodge is night and day, and both the optical sensor $800 and the injector pump $2700-4000 are very prone to go, in fact, i dont know of one 6.5 that didnt have to get it replaced. I've owned both.

I'll stick to the 6 cyl Cummins anyday, and to add further, i enjoyed owning and operating the older 12v then i did the 24v, but thats just me.

[MuddMachine]

you think, even fullyloaded with gear, etc. it'll come close to reg. wt of 9900lbs??? I don't expect the tonuge wt be more than 450lbs

It wouldnt surprise me in the least. Anyone know what the 2500 ram weighs?

And dont forget, 4500KG = 9900 lbs

[TheSarg]

My 1999 3/4 ton (2500)4x4 Quad cab short box diesel was tagged at 4064 KG, add a long box add more weight

[zc911]

well considering they have a 12000lb GVWR, you'll probably be over. The truck alone must be minimum 6500lbs so that leaves 3400lbs. Add in a full tank of fuel, 2 poeple, cmping stuff, 450lb tounge weight, spares, tools
It would be very close

[gobig]

did any body read what i wrote on the previous page????/
my truck is 7500lbs with me in it and a tool box out back which doesn't have anything in it.
i know the rules have changed this year, so i would go down to the MTO , or weight in station, and get what they have for info.
my buddy the pulles dump trailers was pulled over not to long ago, and was told the the trailer is now considered in the reg weight of the truck. what i don't know is that for certain trailers the carry more the a car trailer, or certain amount of axles, or lenght of trailer, etc.
i know that his trailers are 2 axles, and are pull behind.
some thing to check out.you will be much happier with a diesel if you use the truck.if your not far from work, and won't be using the truck for towing or working it much, and are not putting the km's on it, then it will be no good for you.you will kill it, they need to be worked, and they need to get hot.
i know that the d max chevs are good trucks, ride nice, but the newer ones like 05's and 06's are pigs on fuel, and have small fuel tanks. they are getting like 300-350 per tank of fuel, not good range . not sure about the Fords, they look good, buts that about it.you need to take a couple out for a spin, when you decide whats right for you, and compare yourself.
i have no yellow sticker as of right now, but will be looking into the whole car trailer thing and weights, and might have one soon.

[frwinks]

that leaves about 1900lbs for gear and shit (u're right...kinda tight) Tam will just have to bring 3 pairs of shoes instead of 6:brows: :argue: :flame:

[BIGZOOK69]

just checked my gvwr on the dodge it says 9000lbs?sounds heavier then 7500lbs?anyways my 04.5 is getting bout 750k-1018k per tank.and in the newer ford for example,the trip to calabobie i filled the tank once.not cuz i had too,just cuz i was parnoid.that trip in the ford i got 600k towing!truck-trailor-zook,3000lbs duct cleaning box!fwinks and don't worry bout this sticker sh$t, you reg in your name,its a new truck.mto won't bother you!its so common now to have these types of trucks. they won't look!period!mto focus's their time on crap trucks,18 wheelers,business's,etc....i know i deal with it atleast once a year on random spot checks..they have no time for some dude pullin a zook.they want fleets!!!TRUST ME:brows:

[BIGZOOK69]

gobig-----you don't want a yellow sticker!!!!avoid at all costs..anything thats wrong with the truck,tires,windsheild,brakes,minor stuff...you will have to repair everyear..cvor inspection is 100 bucks plus whatever is wrong,then comm plates sticker is more 154 per year,e test's,its a fu*king rackett and it a money scam..25000 bucks per year to keep my trucks on the road...its crazy!i really don't believe that a once and awhile car hauler should have to deal with this goverment money grab..........i'm getting heated thinkin bout it..must go to bed!!!:rant:

[MuddMachine]

they have no time for some dude pullin a zook.they want fleets!!!TRUST ME:brows:

WRONG!!! I strongly disagree.

[Grumpy]

anything thats wrong with the truck,tires,windsheild,brakes,minor stuff...you will have to repair everyear..cvor inspection is 100 bucks plus whatever is wrong,then comm plates sticker is more 154 per year,e test's,its a fu*king rackett and it a money scam..25000 bucks per year to keep my trucks on the road...its crazy!i really don't believe that a once and awhile car hauler should have to deal with this goverment money grab.

I hate to step in here and cause a fuss :rant: but in the end, it's about safety.........mine, your's and anyone else on the road at the same time as you.......we all hate the gov, but they are the ones responsible for keeping things in check out there on the roads.........like this past year with a certain club member, (OVO) who, returning from a trip to the Quinns pretty much lost his trailer.......front axle on his trailer came loose and was run over by the trailer, lost the load, no one was hurt but it could have been worse. If it, (the tow rig and trailer) had been inspected, they (the MTO) surely would've pulled that trailer off the road for being unsafe. This subject has been talked about before I know, just don't take risks........my final word.

[gobig]

you are wrong.
go weigh your truck, and see what it weighs,the gvwr, is the weigh of the truck and what it can handle in the box etc. not just the weight of the truck alone.if you have that many trucks, you should know this. you should also know that the MTO looks at all trucks pulling trailers, company trucks, mail trucks, week end tow trucks etc.they are looking trust me on that. Ask Depot , he will tell you, he has been pulled over many times.
if you are towing or pulling a trailer, and they think there is some weight there, and think you should have a yellow sticker, or think that your truck might need some parts, or what ever they are thinking at that time, they will pull you over and they will find some thing wrong.
i just did the whole front end on my truck, not cheap, but as anyone knows driving a heavy duty truck, be it a 3/4 ton, 1 ton, or bigger, it is hard as hell to keep front end parts in check, and most people are ignorant to whats going on in their front end, maybe they can't feel that ball joint moving around, or wheel bearing slop etc, and pulling a trailer with added weight is plain un safe with bad parts. this is why they do this, and for the most part they know the guy that tows once in a while doesn't check his stuff often enough, so this is the guy they are going to pull over a check.
and when this happens, they leave you with 1000 dollars plus in fines. to me this makes no sense, so i get under my truck at least every month and move stuff around and check for loose stuff, broken parts etc, and if it cost me a little more a year for a sticker and a saftey, well it is just plain cheaper to do it that way,then to pay for fines and still have to replace the parts.
the rules change all the time as well, something to keep in mind. as for you, if you run with no yellow sticker and your truck is reg under weight, well thats your choice, but remember, one day they will pull you over, and when you walk away sore, this thread will make a lot more sense.
if you want to play, you have to pay.i would rather sink my money in fresh parts, and tranny upgrades etc, then pay for fines which get me no where but broke!!!!!
i haven't seen a dealer that has taken the time to explain the weight differences, and why they only reg as 3000kg's, but my guess is that it is cheaper for them,and it is up to the customer who is buying said truck to do their home work.
not bashing anyone here, and not trying to stir up shit here, but just giving facts as some people are looking for answers, not guesses.

[BIGZOOK69]

whoa!!ok just tryin to save you a buck or two..this mto stuff is on my mind daily,when you run a company that the trucks are "the bread and butter" you tend to feel that its a scam...all this weight bullshi$!50kg over,,,,circle checks everyday,log books,yearly cvor,yearly repairs,you want that?ok you can have it.....but when the mto stop's you and your log book isn't filled out because your getting"just taking a short trip to get milk" and that rookie officer feels to make you a example because his wife is bangin a guy that has a dodge 2500!!lol.......remember ,me!!ah whatever!!it will never happen..do what you want,,i'll still wheel with you yella sticka dudes......:thefinger :D

[TheSarg]

Correst me if im wrong, but dont you only have to fill out a log book if your trip will exceed X number of hours/miles?

[BIGZOOK69]

not sure never asked that,,,i'm sure that i have to do it every morning just after my circle check....

[zc911]

Correst me if im wrong, but dont you only have to fill out a log book if your trip will exceed X number of hours/miles?


Yes, for normal city drives you are ok no need. i forget the distance that requires you to fill it out. But before you go ont hat drive, you need a 5 day history in the log book. And if you fill it out wrong you get a nice fine to the tune of $350

[Depot]

ok kiddies.. im back online finally!!!! I havnt had a chance to read this entire thread and I will be doing so over the next few days so heres a quick summary from the glimpse i had...

yellow sticker is an annual safety inspection. It has nothing to do with CVOR's. u need a yellow sticker if u meet any of the following criteria :

1 - ur actual weight is over 4500 kg
2 - ur registered weight is over 4500 kg
3 - ur GVWR is over 4500 kg - look on ur door jamb to find that number, not ur reg papers. all 1-tons todays have a GVWR well over 4500 kg. Mine is 5300 ish
4 - its a company truck used for business - no matter what ur weight is there u need a yellow


CVOR - u need one once u register ur truck at over 4500 kg. ur acual weight fully loaded should be under ur registered weight. ur GVWR does not matter for a CVOR.

If the truck ur r using has a yellow, then the trailer must have one too!

Final example.. currently my truck is registered at 4000 kg for the winter. That puts me outta CVOR range so no more pre-trips or log books BUT since my GVWR is over 4500kg I still MUST have a valid yellow sticker.

Just cause u have a yellow doesnt mean u need to have a CVOR but if u are in CVOR range then YES, u need yellows TOO! they are 2 seperate things.

thats it thats all, its that simple.

gl

D

[Depot]

more info for yah all.. this is all a repeat for those of u that havnt read all my jiberings in the past....

First up lets define a commercial vehicle in simple words.... better yet in colour....

if u have blue plates, its a passenger/personal vehicle.. none of these rules apply.
if u have black plates, U R A COMMERCIAL VEHICLE! PERIOD!

i thought the same thing u did Van and learned dearly... the commercial class has nothing to do with business or personal use... if ur vehicle can carry cargo (ie pick up box or cube van with cargo area) ur a commercial vehicle. If u have one of the cargo vans thats is full of seats for people, then u get blue plates.

pre-trips - good for 24 hours. u must have a valid pre-trip in effect whenever u drive ur vehicle. So if I get up at 9 am, I do a pre-trip 9circle check) and fill out the 4 lines on the booklet and sign it (damn, thats a lot of work eh!) Now Im good to go till 9 am the next morning so even a jaunt to the beer store mid day is still covered.

log books - U must maintain a current log book at all times if
1 - u travel more than 100 miles or 160 km from ur base of operations and this is the important part.. that 160 km is "as the bird flies. Thats a huge radius u can drive ur truck within without having a log book and that covers 90% of us city drivers.
2 - u must return to ur base of operations within 24 hours of departure each and every day.

that 2nd bit is what screws me... if I wanna goto greens for the weekend I can argue that its within 160 km of my house but since I'm gone for 2 or 3 days, I have to have a valid log book.

In order for a log book to be valid, it must show the previous 7 days of work, driving, rest etc. That way they can see if u r over ur alloted hours.

All i do for those weekend runs is pull out my pre-trip book and start a fresh logbook based on the previous 7 days in my pre-trip book noting how many km's I drove, how long it took me to drive and how many hours i worked during that week. it takes me 10 minutes and im back to 100% legal.

1 final note, for those of us that dont keep log books daily, u still have to be able to prove to an MTO officer that u r not over ur hours. Since I only put on 50-100 km per day on my truck and my pre-trips clearly show that, I simply splain to the officer that I dont actual work at a real job and all the driving i do is just daily chores like going to the beer store. That way I dont even come close to exceeding the allowable hours of operation.

This shit really isnt that hard to do and it will save u thousands in fines. Contrary to some ppl's beliefs, MTO is not after the fleets... they are after the little guys that dont know or dont care. Big fleets cant afford to get their trucks parked so they are the most compliant.

gl

D

[vanbdan]

Thanks for the english Depot,and welcome back,I kinda missed ya fawker.

van:hubba:

[BIGZOOK69]

depot,,,just think it took 94 replys and bout 2 weeks of debating something no person on this site knows shi% bout....and you come along and clear it all up in 2 posts!!!good to have you back....

[TheSarg]

Scuse me Hoss, but i do believe this was a very good and informative thread for many. Depot knocked it out of the park with his concise and accurate info but i believe we covered all the general bases.

Especially for those who dont know shit:thefinger

[BIGZOOK69]

i can admit when i don't know things,,,i was including myself of course..take it easy there tuff guy...all in good fun..no harm,,but my statement is true...relax...

[TheSarg]

LoL Joe, it wuz a relax man hence the :thefinger

[zc911]

LoL Joe, it wuz a relax man hence the :thefinger

Your sarcasm goes right over everyones heads :D

[Grumpy]

depot, just think it took 94 replys and bout 2 weeks of debating something no person on this site knows shi% bout....and you come along and clear it all up in 2 posts!!!

It's a damn good thing he wears a helmet to protect all that valuable knowledge :urock:

[TheSarg]

Bloody hell im not that grumpy of an old man am i??

LoL it shouldnt go over Joe's head he's taller then me!!!

[gobig]

i am so glad that most of you read what i had typed, as for the rest of you:thefinger
good clear post on Depot's part
so frinks, did you get all this info and process it into your brain?????
and did you find a truck yet????

[Superzuk]

Truck? what truck???? :thefinger


That should make it 102 posts... :brows:

[Depot]

depot,,,just think it took 94 replys and bout 2 weeks of debating something no person on this site knows shi% bout....and you come along and clear it all up in 2 posts!!!good to have you back....

Tx, its good to be back... now all I gotta do is clean this thread up a tad.. maybe I'll do it after x-mas (next one that is :D)

The only reason I know what I know about this shit is caught I got busted coming down the 400 a few years back. 2 G's in tickets and a real raw feeling back there. i managed to get the fines down to $1000 but that still hurt like hell. I researched the laws plenty to find a way outta dem tickets to no avail. Once I got my head wrapped around the definition of a commercial vehicle, I realized i was screwed.

Then a year later while driving around K-W I got pulled over for no flippin reason at all by a local oinker, not even a MTO guy. Once the officer got up to my drivers door he said oops, there it is and sorry for pulling yah over. of course I questioned him wtf he pulled me over for and he splained since Im driving a 1-ton I need a yellow. My yellow is on my windshield so not easy to see from the side view. I splained to him that my truck was registered for 4000 kg, it was empty and I didnt have my trailer with me so why do I need a yellow. Thats when i learned about the GVWR rating thing. as soon as i got home I checked with the mto website and sure enough he was rite... with a GVWR in excess of 4500, I needed a yellow no matter what my truck is registered for.

when I first bought my truck, the dealership registered it at 3000 kg (dumnasses) but they did give me a yellow.

l8r

D

[JoeDirt]

I dont get it,I bought a brand new truck in 2001 duramax dualy and there was no yellow sticker on it.I asked if there was supposed to be one on there and he said no you dont need it.this was right from the dealership.The truck had black plates on it.All my trucks had black plates on them even a 93 ford ranger 4x4,this has me real curious.I never had any problems with getting pulled over though but I just dont get how the dealer let me drive away with the truck and not a yellow sticker on it.Maybe you dont need it for the first year as its right from the factory? I have no idea.

[Lost Soul]

I dont get it,I bought a brand new truck in 2001 duramax dualy and there was no yellow sticker on it.I asked if there was supposed to be one on there and he said no you dont need it.this was right from the dealership.The truck had black plates on it.All my trucks had black plates on them even a 93 ford ranger 4x4,this has me real curious.I never had any problems with getting pulled over though but I just dont get how the dealer let me drive away with the truck and not a yellow sticker on it.Maybe you dont need it for the first year as its right from the factory? I have no idea.


The dealer needs only plate it for the minimum, unless you request it at a certain level. I sold many at the Ford And Chrysler dealers I worked at and only ever did any special tags on commercial vehicles.

[Depot]

Joe Dirt - I gues it comes down to its not what u know, its who u know...

when I was shopping for my truck I dealt with plenty of moron salesmen that didnt know squat. i wound up calling GM Canada to find a dealership that actually knows something about trucks, they sent me to Unionville motors. My sales rep there knew his shit.. there were only a few tech questions I asked him that he couldnt answer off the cuff but got me my answer in a very timely manner.

Sure they reg'd my truck for 3000 kg cause they were paying for it and technically it was legal so y sepnd the xtra $$ but i dont think it would be legal for em to let u drive off the lot in a trcuk that requires a yellow without doing it IF they know about it.

And Yes, even BRAND NEW trucks require a yellow. keep in mind many 1 tons that get ordered via dealership come cab& chassis only. They arent street legal yet. My neighbour bought 1 saame time as me and when his truck came it it went straight over to DELL to have a dump box put on it.. After the box went on with all the required lights, then it went in for its yellow.

Another example, tow trucks.. they go straight from the delaership to some shop to be modified.. then get yellowed.

The rules are clear even if ur salesman is an idiot it comes down on ur head... If u wanna try bitchin out the delaership after u get nailed, gl to yah

l8r

D

[zc911]

Bloody hell im not that grumpy of an old man am i??

LoL it shouldnt go over Joe's head he's taller then me!!!


haha i dunno, i get it now, but i guess it takes time :D