Any winter projects ?

[MuddMachine]

Anyone building anything ? C'mon, spill the beans, I know someone's doin something stupid or crazy. Give us the goods.

[Fullload]

I ain't telling nobody nuthin!!!!!!!!!!!!!:boot:

[MuddMachine]

Originally posted by Fullload
I ain't telling nobody nuthin!!!!!!!!!!!!!:boot:

Fine, I'll choke it outta ya one way or the other !

[Superzuk]

I'm..... well.... hoping to finish my red zuk that's in the garage.....
Nothing too crazy though...

[Mudslug]

Nothing too out of control for me.

Tubing the rear half of George, adding some sliders and a tube bumper with a mounting point for my winch.....possibly an exo cage if the time is there....

I wanted to add a custom flat bottom skid plate like the one below but I will not have the time

[zc911]

an exo cage, iw as thinking the exact same thing.

I ahve a proper tube bender and notcher, and would defintly be willing to help you out on the cage if you want

[Mudslug]

Actually the tube bender was going to be my Christmas present to myself this year. My dad is heading down to Florida for a cruise and will be back around Dec 2nd and he said he would stop and bring back my bender from Pro tools for me.

However I would like to stop by and see how yours works and everything though. I am a total noob when it comes to bending tube and stuff.

What size dies and what type of bender do you have??

[zc911]

it;s from JD Squared. crap can;t find the webiste, probably jdsquared.com.

i bought the die to bend 1.75inch tube cause thats the size i need ot make a SCCA legal cage for my car. I also got the degree wheel (BUt havn;t mounted it yet, friken hard to mount it).
The notcher is a good idea, it makes it much easeir to cut the notches, and makes very clean cuts.

The other pain in the ass is finidng some where to mount it securly to. At my freinds place on his patio there is a 4x4 hole in the concrete where a fence psot used to be so we welded up a mounting plate on top of thick 4x4 square tube and then it just slides securley into the concrete hole. Also gives lots of room to bend long tube. Just sucks thats we have to use it outside.

The JD squared guys are in florida :) It was recommend to me by guys who build cages for race cars. You can also go crazy and mount hydrolics to it :D

[Mudslug]

The JD and Pro tools one are basically the same design but the pro tool guys offer the standard and the heavy duty bender and they are a wee bit cheaper.

Also I read somewhere the JD bender comes as raw steel and the Pro Tools one is powder coated...true?? I can't tell from the PIC's

http://www.jd2.com/
http://www.pro-tools.com/

The other reason I will probably go with Pro tools is they are located in Tampa and my dad is going to be in Tampa for 2 or 3 days after the cruise visiting a friend...damn I wish I could retire too!!

The notcher was something I was wondering about as well, so it is a cool piece of kit eh? I guess I will need to find an elcheapo one that is still half decent.

Do you know what size tube (wall thickness) you can use up to on your bender?

[zc911]

the JD is zinc phosphate plated for corrosion.

It depends on what die you get, the one i have does as thin as .095. The thinner it is the more you need the Anti-Springback Bar. wihc stops thin walled tube from crushing ( i am gonna order that up soon). If you get the other one make sure it has somthing like this. Or find out how thin the tubing is before it will crush bend.

The notcher is well well worth it, will make your cage look peofession with the tubes meeting flush and allowing nice welds, don;t skimp, definatly get it. The JD one looks cheap (kinda), but belive me it;s not, it;s HEAVY and well made.

[TheSarg]

im not buildin nuthin, me nut smrt enuff eh

[Mudslug]

Nothing? Come on...

[MuddMachine]

Mudslug yer gettin a JD ? Sweet. Make room, me bring beer bahaha.


So umm....... I thought you were gonna put Georges drivetrain in an LJ ? Have we lost a zook guy to the 'toy' world ???

[Fullload]

Fine, I'll choke it outta ya one way or the other !

Just because i am so scared of this threat :roll: I'll let you in on a bit of it. I just aquired a set of 36x12.50 Swamper TSL's Bias ply's.
Over the winter i somehow have to fit these under my Zook. Without having a 14 leaf spring pack or re-arching my spring to high hell.
The axel choice will be a set of "shaved" Toyota axles. As for the suspension i am a little undecided. I wanna keep the fender trimming to a minimum.
Coils are an option if there would be somebody with some expierence that would be willing to help walk me through it.
I don't mean telling me over the Website. I mean come and expierment with me in person.
As for gearing i am a little troubled. ( Troubled = financially (sp?) challanged ) i have to stay with the stock 4.10 ratio and the 4.16 t-case. Maybe next year i'll go for a doubler box or a set of ring and pinions. So i'll have to tough it out with my little 1.3. I just hope the front locker and a little more articulation will get me through what i ask of it.]
Ok you guys i have done enough homework on this and have many choices on how to accomplish what i need. Time for your comments questions and flames (Muddmachine) so gimmie your best combination. Oh yeah remember it has to be low budget for now. One piece at a time. so keep your $2000.00 US rock boxes out of it, at least for now!!!!
After the inital set up there is a set of longfields in the works.
And having it street drivable is also a goal.

[vanbdan]

hmmm.....215 tires..........36" swampers.........I got nothin.Guess i wont be trying to follow you anytime soon.(lousy no good out a money :bang: :bang: :bang: --guess I better get a part time job)

[Fullload]

Thats what i did to get the tires. And thats what i'll have to do to get everything else too!!!! so don't worry, it'll all be worth it later. :beer:

[MuddMachine]

Fullload I think the engine issue otta be addressed. If you keep the 1.3 you'll need more gear than u have currently. If you run a 1.6 16v then leave the gearing alone till you can afford it, otherwise you need gearing now. Once you have your gearing/engine thingy worked out, you can decide what you wanna do for suspension. What have you decided about steering ???

Dude im not gonna flame ya cuz when someone says something to you, first you listen, then you think and then voice you your own opinion. Keeping an open mind is critical in this sport.

[Superzuk]

Fullload, when you are ready for gears, let me know. I can get a good deal on yota gears...

umm... as for the coils, I will come over and experiment with you... or you can come over and experiment with me on my red one... Either way... I have some articles, photos etc...

As for Longfields, go to WWW.marlincrawler.com , they have them right now for $169.00 USD, and Marlin and Big Mike are top notch guys to deal with. They helped me every step of the way for the Marlin Crawler. They even took care of setting the shipping up during 911.... everything worked out, I got my stuf on time and everything. (I just need to get off my Phat ass and build it....)



:D

:beer: so come on over and we can test on mine, or I'lll come over and we'll test on yours...

[Depot]

toy super birfields ---> http://www.zookpower.ca/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=628

new projects...

Got that grand vitarar 2.5 outta its old body and ready to figure out...

toyo axels, super birfields, maybe even hardened axels.

body - gonna copy Darens buggy design (from B&M offroad) 2X3 frame, will be a pipe body since I dont have tube or wanna spend $$ on tube.

Gonna try my hand at coils all the way round.....will be using princess auto tractor arms till I get it dialed in

Havnt figured out tranny t-case yet.. open to suggestions... I have the auto tranny that came with the motor, guess i can fix that.. i also have a couple auto and one stick tranny from kicks, maybe try those. I do not want a toy tranny. Any other suggestions more than welcome

tires - gonna aim for something in the 38-39 range maybe... thats wide open too.

project 2
---------------

1976 International scout II
been sitting in my backyard for over 1.5 years now.

Got her running again 2 weeks ago... gonna get a spring over.. change all the 5 bolt stuff to 6 bolt chev from the u-joint out so i dont have to get another job to pay for scout parts.

Gonna put the 35 boggers off my zuk and onto her, plate and ins for road and maybe keep as a daily for the winter and wheel it like that in the spring.

thats whats planned.. we'll see what I actually get done

[Mcbain]

Bought Vandban's 83 sj. right now it's down to the frame. plan on putting coils on it and having it ready for the spring. I'm taking pics as it's done. I'll post'em when I get them

[MuddMachine]

Originally posted by Depot



body - gonna copy Darens buggy design (from B&M offroad) 2X3 frame, will be a pipe body since I dont have tube or wanna spend $$ on tube.



Havnt figured out tranny t-case yet.. open to suggestions...



project 2
---------------

change all the 5 bolt stuff to 6 bolt chev from the u-joint out so i dont have to get another job to pay for scout parts.


Depot tube is cheap ! dont use pipe, way too heavy and not really much cheaper than pipe. (you dont need DOM)

Tranny-t-case ? There's always the Kicker3....

5-bolt to 6-bolt ??? Thats a PITA !

[Depot]

i dont know how much tube is, i get sched 40 for a buck a foot with tax.. I guess its the bender thats pricey.

Fullload and i had an intersting coversation bout the kicker 3... he made a few points that if true make the product much better than what i thought.. will do more research on it b4 i say more... dont wanna use that with my 2.5 though for a few reasons...

concerned the 1.6 trannys may not be strong enough for the 2.5 and 38's (for example).

also, the kicker 3.. if i blow one tranny up, how easily can it be moved to another one? OTT says they want both kick tranny and sammy case to be machined or something first. - need more research...


PITA... yep it is.. but do u know how expensive and hard to get parts are for that damn scout? I priced out rotors for that thing last year.. they were more than I paid for the whole truck! Not to mention, I have 6 bolt rims for all my tires already including the spare set... nice to keep it all the same.

[MuddMachine]

Originally posted by Depot
i dont know how much tube is, i get sched 40 for a buck a foot with tax.. I guess its the bender thats pricey.

Fullload and i had an intersting coversation bout the kicker 3... he made a few points that if true make the product much better than what i thought..

concerned the 1.6 trannys may not be strong enough for the 2.5 and 38's (for example).

also, the kicker 3.. if i blow one tranny up, how easily can it be moved to another one? OTT says they want both kick tranny and sammy case to be machined or something first. - need more research...


Price of tube........... sure schedule 40 is cheap but weighs a ton and that takes away from the zook being nice and light. Now speaking of light that brings us to another problem. Running a 2.5 GV motor and 39's, hate to say it but if you wanna drive they way you drive your current rig you otta be thinkin about dana 60's. The Toys wont take a 38s or 39s for too long. For anyone who says "sure they'll take it", You have to know Depot and his driving style hehe.

Kicker3.......... Im gonna stay away from commenting on that and you know why, lol.

[MuddMachine]

Dude if you wanna drive this on the street you MAY have to do the ole 'cut and turn' on the knuckles to fix your caster. I say this cuz you say you want it streetable and toy axles need this mod sometimes.

Hey Uncle Don mentioned the trailmaster 3" springs if ya wanna keep it simple. I put a set on Mikeys truck and I was amazed at the flex bein an arched spring with 3" of lift. They ride really nice. Another thing if you stay with leaf springs........ BUMP STOPS !!! THEY ARE WORTH THE MONEY (Depot are you listening?) They will save your springs. You've seen countless people ruin springs in a weekend. Youve probably heard me preachin about how a trac bar helps with wrap but they still sag alot without the bumpstops. Pretty much any nice supple spring (ie: yj's or trailmaster3" or even a nice set of zook leafs) Running cj springs will allow you to use the original mounting eyes and leave you to move only the shackles back to accommodate them.

[Depot]

Originally posted by MuddMachine
you MAY have to do the ole 'cut and turn' on the knuckles to fix your caster.

BUMP STOPS !!! THEY ARE WORTH THE MONEY (Depot are you listening?)


Gary did the ol cut and turn for his toy knuckles... what a butchery job - he cut the knuckle off with a grinder and zip disks, hammers and chisels... made a mess and somehow put it all back together and it seems to work. I'd like to find a cleaner way of getting em off - like maybe on a lathe like they do with driveshafts.. any ideas? Thats a definate mod needed for my truck.


yah yah yah, i hear yah.. and I agree.. bump stops are the shit. i wouldnt have snapped my last spring if i had a bump stop but the landing wouldnt have been so smooth either :D

they toy axels have proven themselves to me beyond a doubt on 35's pounding all day and nite. i expect them to hold up reasonable well to the new rig under non-depot style pounding. The next upgrade will be hardened axels.. again, longfield has got a nice line on that too.

but im hoping to do beadlock rings on all 4 and air way way down to give me more finesse options at my disposal.

:eek: :eek: yes, that word was finesse... i found it in a cracker jack box once :upy:

D

[Superzuk]

Finesse??? Depot??? Uhh... Depot, finesse isn't just a shampoo....

:fl: :ban:


bwahahahahahaha


Just kidding. :D

[MuddMachine]

Originally posted by Depot
I'd like to find a cleaner way of getting em off - like maybe on a lathe like they do with driveshafts.. any ideas? Thats a definate mod needed for my truck.


yah yah yah, i hear yah.. and I agree.. bump stops are the shit. i wouldnt have snapped my last spring if i had a bump stop but the landing wouldnt have been so smooth either :D

D

Cutting knuckles......... only other way Id know is to use an 'air gouger' wich you dont have so......... grind it is dude. Just need the right disks and take your time.


Bumpstops. You's be surprised dude. The bumpstops Im talkin about are 4.5" tall and compress down to 2.5" so the landing wouldnt be that bad at all. $100/pr and well worth it.

[TheSarg]

ok ok 38 Sx's under a toyo SAS coil Kik, seeya in the spring hehehe

[MuddMachine]

Originally posted by TheSarg
ok ok 38 Sx's under a toyo SAS coil Kik, seeya in the spring hehehe

Hey hey hey.......... what happened to the ford 9" and HP-D44 combo you were talkin about ?

Kik you say ? Nice.......

[Depot]

Originally posted by MuddMachine
The bumpstops Im talkin about are 4.5" tall and compress down to 2.5" so the landing wouldnt be that bad at all. $100/pr and well worth it.


hmmmm... gotta look into that.. where u quoting from?

i never considered that they would compress that much...

D

[TheSarg]

Hey hey hey.......... what happened to the ford 9" and HP-D44 combo you were talkin about

On hold for another project in years to come, i've watched yer rig this season and a toyo setup is MORE then beefy enuff, plus it saves me weight for towing

[Fullload]

Muddmachine. I do not want to do another engine swap right now. as much as i love the 16 valve i just cannot justify spending up to $1500.00 for the motor harness and computer.
So that leaves me to do the gearing only right. Which gives me two options. I can re gear the pumkins or double up the t-case.
I really do not want to re-gear the diffs cause i would spend about $600.00 in R&P's and seals, bearings etc... Just to blow one up because i do not know how to properly set one up or pay another $300.00 to pay a pro. So with that much money spent for a set of diffs i could buy the OTT kicker 3 and have the reliability and availibility of stock 4.10 gears.
As far as a spring set up in the front i was thinking of a Yj set up. That will allow me to move my front axle as much as i want to before i have steering binding issues. As for the rear i am not too sure. Like i said it may be coils and may be a spring set up.
How do you guys think a set of yj's in the front and Cj's in the rear. That will bring me to about 86-88 inches on the wheelbase. I really do not want to move the gas tank just yet. As far as a set of trailmaster lift springs go......... It is a great idea and would love to but the financial aspect comes into play again. I would rather sacrifice the cheesiness of a two inch body lift. (gives me room for the kicker as well.
I have been thinking about a steering solution for a long time now and think i may make my own Toyota to suzuki drag link and my own tie-rod as well. something like the one at roadless gear. I'll get the link later.
I will re-read all posts and reply if i left anything out. Any other suggestions????

[drtysuzuk]

i,m looking at Mudlites set up in rear3/4 eliptical and streatch out the front as well. i,ll put in the 4:1 t-case i got from Zukin.

hopefully i can put in a cage this winter as well.also have toy axles,not sure whether i,ll put them under mine or build up another out the collection.

maybe the lj

[MuddMachine]

Originally posted by Depot
hmmmm... gotta look into that.. where u quoting from?

i never considered that they would compress that much...

D

Last time I bought some was when I had my shop in Bolton, I think they were $90 from National4wd. You might wanna try Howard or Stu for pricing. Youre looking for the 'Energy Suspension 4.5" bumpstops' When mounted they should NOT allow the springs to negative arch. Besides, Ideally you want maximum droop and a bit of uptravel.

[MuddMachine]

Originally posted by Fullload

So that leaves me to do the gearing only right. Which gives me two options. I can re gear the pumkins or double up the t-case.

Or you could sell the 4:1 and put that money into a 6:1 case rather than adding a kicker3 (that setup = added weight and less weight is the name of the game)


As far as a spring set up in the front i was thinking of a Yj set up. That will allow me to move my front axle as much as i want to before i have steering binding issues. As for the rear i am not too sure. Like i said it may be coils and may be a spring set up.
How do you guys think a set of yj's in the front and Cj's in the rear. That will bring me to about 86-88 inches on the wheelbase.

Why not cj's front and rear ? that allows you to maintain a 2"wide springpack and not push your front end so far forward (an inch or 2 less than yj's) I dont know if you can use yj's up front and keep the steering box where it is. Anyone ?

I have been thinking about a steering solution for a long time now and think i may make my own Toyota to suzuki drag link and my own tie-rod as well. something like the one at roadless gear. I'll get the link later.


What about a steering arm ? draglink and tie-rod are the easy parts .

[MuddMachine]

Originally posted by drtysuzuk
i,m looking at Mudlites set up in rear3/4 eliptical and streatch out the front as well. i,ll put in the 4:1 t-case i got from Zukin.

hopefully i can put in a cage this winter as well.also have toy axles,not sure whether i,ll put them under mine or build up another out the collection.

maybe the lj

Hey drtysuzuk, build another truck. Its great to have a truck on the go and a truck trail ready at the same time, never miss a weekend this way. Do the lj dude, do it !!!

[Depot]

Can not use Yj's and keep zuk ps box where it is. Assuming ur trying to move ur front axel as far forward as possible - if u leave the steering box where it is, the drag link will bind on the toy axels. Even with crossover steering, u should move the box forward a bit to preserve ur steering geometry.

mind u, toy axels, 36's, u think a kick ps box is strong enough? My toy box works pretty hard with 35's - even boiled the fluid a few times. Now add a locker to the mix (or a weld in my case) and it aint no morning walk no more... the toy box really has to work to turn that rubber - no more 2 finger steering.

dont forget, toy boxes sit on the outside of the frame and are a fair bit bigger. keep that in mind when designing ur springs.

D

[MuddMachine]

Originally posted by Depot

mind u, toy axels, 36's, u think a kick ps box is strong enough? My toy box works pretty hard with 35's - even boiled the fluid a few times.
D

You can use the Kick box. Ya just gotta do the washer trick on it. Unscrew the pressure relief valve, and put a washer in the base of the valve cap that is the same o.d. as the spring. This washer will shim the spring and increase the preload letting it build more pressure before it starts to bypass pressure. Being a small resevouir you may want to use a tranny cooler. This will allow you to hold more fluid as well. And dont use power steering fluid, use synthetic ATF. You can go to the scrap yard for a cooler and just start lookin around. Depot this would help you out as well. And last but not least I believe RRO has an overdrive power steering pulley for Kick boxes. Here's the cooler type you want:

[Fullload]

You don't really need to move the steering box with a YJ spring set up. The spring only moves the axle forward about 3". If i remember Muddmachine has moved his that far and has not needed to move his box. Besides every kit that i have seen on the market that does this conversion tells you nowhere that you have to re-locate the box.
Remember what i said in a post before. I want to stretch the wheelbase long enough not to move the box and not to move th tank in the rear. That leaves me to a wheelbase that is 86-88 inches. Maybe next year will allow me the time to do that.
These are 36x12.50 swampers. I think the kik box will take it. There is a big difference in 35X16.00 boggers too. 3.5 inches a tire x 2 sides. Thats like an extra stock tire on the outside of mine that the box has to work at as well. On another note i won't be sawing the wheel back and forth in a mud hole for 10 minutes at a time to get the fluid that hot either. I'll probally do the relief trick and wait to install the resivoir after.

Another thing for me this winter is time. I start nights Tomorrow and will be there for three months. have a minimal amount of time to do this. First i need to clean and re-build the axles that i have. Oh well i better get at it.

[Fullload]

Or you could sell the 4:1 and put that money into a 6:1 case rather than adding a kicker3 (that setup = added weight and less weight is the name of the game)


You sure that the 6.1 case would do the trick? sounds like a minimal difference for a 5" difference in tire? What have you heard on the 8.1 case.? fact or fiction?

[Depot]

Originally posted by Fullload
Besides every kit that i have seen on the market that does this conversion tells you nowhere that you have to re-locate the box.


is that taking into account toy axels with those kits? with or without crossover designs?

I'll be willing to bet that if u moved ur axel center 3 full inches, put toys in and didnt have a cross-over in, u'd bind up under full right turns - I know i did.

With a cross-over design, u might not bind but now ur steering geometry is going askew - not sure if enough to matter but definatly worth keeping in mind.

d

[Fullload]

I don't mind a small bit of rubbing here and there, as long as i keep the stock caster angles so i don't get the steering wobble of death.
Before i Buy/ fabricate something up i wanna check for that kinda stuff. who knows. i'm still feeling for ideas from you all.

[TheSarg]

8:1 case, Fact. Wont be released till December so realistically Some time early next year. Cant wait to see the price.

[lil beast]

this winter ill be leaning towards a 4:1 or 6:1 and d44's. cant say for sure tho.:roll:

[Depot]

Originally posted by lil beast
this winter ill be leaning towards a 4:1 or 6:1 and d44's.

hey beast, I thought u were gonna do toyo's?

hey, u got cj's all round, howd that work on ur steering system?

D

[MuddMachine]

Originally posted by Fullload
Besides every kit that i have seen on the market that does this conversion tells you nowhere that you have to re-locate the box.

True, but the kit re-locates both ends of the spring. Plus if your not buyin a kit you'll have to make 2.5" brackets. I say use the cj's cuz youre goin on about maybe goin to coils in the future, so why do all this work just to redo a whole bunch of work in a year from now ??? You like to work ?


i won't be sawing the wheel back and forth in a mud hole for 10 minutes at a time to get the fluid that hot either.

Says who ?

[MuddMachine]

Originally posted by Fullload
You sure that the 6.1 case would do the trick? sounds like a minimal difference for a 5" difference in tire? What have you heard on the 8.1 case.? fact or fiction?

Well the difference is 2.7:1 to 4:1, thats the jump you made, it didnt even double. So if you go from 4:1 to 6:1 thats a whole 2:1 increase in t-case gearing.

8.1 ??? True, it's not on the market and who knows when it will be, dont hold your breath. Besides that, I wouldnt touch the 8:1 without a billet case.

[lil beast]

hey beast, I thought u were gonna do toyo's?

hey, u got cj's all round, howd that work on ur steering system?


well, I like the fact that toyo's come with 410/411's in them and im not sure what d44's come with but the only thing im lookin at is $$$. If I can get an off set d44 with a 5 on 5.5 pattern and decent gearing, that's wheels i dont have to buy. If I can find a set for say.....$200-$300+gears ill do it. If I can find fj40 axles for the same ill do that as I wouldn't have to buy gears just rims. As far as the 2" springs go, I moved my front axle only 2" forward. I did this by extending the frame 5"(or so)and moving the spring mount back 2"(or so..didn't take any true measurements, just lined the spring up and welded). This did not bother the steering system at all.

Ill be modificating a drop link in the front and rear over the winter for sure cuz the costs are pretty low(free) but the d44's or toys what ever the case will have to wait till we get back on track with $.

I try to be different but from what i've seen about toy axles and how much abuse they can withstand. I might not want to be different in this case. i.e.d44's.

Paul

[Superzuk]

Fullload, let's see...

4.10*6*3.73=91.758
4.62*4.16*3.73=71.68



your vehicle speed with 36" tires 4.10 gears in ring and pinion, 6:1 tcase, and 3.73 1st gear trannie ratio = 1.166606231014784 MPH


your vehicle speed with 31" tires 4.62 gears in ring and pinion, 4.16:1 tcase, and 3.73 1st gear trannie ratio = 1.2859658245400431 MPH



So, I think going to 6:1 would be enough as long as you're happy now, cause you'll be lower than you are now assuming I got the info of what you have now right...
Hope that all helps...


By the Way, for the calculator I used for this go to http://www.marlincrawler.com/java/getspd_calc.html

[Superzuk]

Oh, and I forgot... I agree with Muddmachine, I would not trust the strength of 8:1 case in a stock zuk tcase.... would need to be a total custom housing for the case internals I would think...