axle info please

[Terranaut]

Can anybody tell me the width of stock Sami axles?
Better yet could someone post the frame diagrame with all the measurements?
I still haven't found a good Sami but have a set of Scout dana44's with 4.88 gears that I am considering haveing shortened to fit one.
I figue chopping the driver side of the front and pass side of the rear should make it about right but need actual axle dimentions to make sure .
I know this is expensive but do I really want to build up Stock Sami axles ?
Thanks .

[Mudslug]

Why chop them? leave them stock width and run them. Remember custom axles means you need custom part to go in them if they break.

[vanbdan]

is this what you wanted?
http://www.suzukiinfo.org/downloads/samuraichassisdimensions.jpg

http://www.suzukiinfo.org/downloads/samuraiframe.jpg

http://www.suzukiinfo.org/downloads/samurai.dwg

[Terranaut]

What I need is the measurements from pinion center to wheel flanges ,front and rear.
The problem is the front pumpkin is right where the spring perch would go and the rear is in the center .
I would only have 1 custom shaft in the front and 1 in the rear and I know people running these axles with SB chevs in front of them fully locked on 35's with no problems .
The 1.6l I plan on would give a lot less stress to the axle even with more gear reduction so I am not too afraid of breakage .(But I do see your point)
Help please!!!

[Mudslug]

Hmm the D44 is set up exactly like the Toyo dif is it not? How short is the short side?? Would it not be easier to outboard the springs a wee bit?

Take a peak at the pictures below, they are toyos that were put under a zook by a memeber of this board (Scotty!!) and there was enough room for the springs...are the D44s that much tighter??

[Mudslug]

and

[Mudslug]

Actually dude, read this
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=120802&perpage=25&pagenumber=2

It explain everything to you and it makes way more sense then creating axles. Alway move the mounting tabs instead of hacking and changing axles...it just makes things easier just in case something does break down the road...

[vanbdan]

4wheel drive and sport utility magazine did an article (dec 2003)on a spoa on a zukusing toyo axles,and aRocky Road JPEater wrangler conversion kit. they also had a similar problem,with the perch being to close to the pumpkin.What they did was weld the perch on,and mount a flat plate on itThen use one u-bolt,and on the "close" side bolts through the plate mounted to the perchand up thruogh the top plate to sandwich the leaves.Does this make sense?

[Fullload]

would make better sense if you provided a link or something like that. I have seen it done that way somewhere. It was a good idea.

[vanbdan]

tried too find a link,but I couldn't find it on thier site.I only knew about it because I bought the magazine,for the right up.Its a good tech article,on how to do the spoa with j##p springs,and toyo axles-something I would be interested in doing waaaaaay in the future.Plus I was looking for all sourses of info to do my own spoa.Now if I only could get it done!:D

[Terranaut]

So the question remains....
Can anybody take a measurement of the axles for me ?
Total width and longside axle from pinion to wheel ?
My plan is to run 35"x14.5"x15 boggers and I have to see how wide it will be total with 10" wide offset rims.
Cops around here don't mind a few inches sticking out ...even in the rain but having an open wheel buggy will not go over well .
I don't plan to drive all over in it but need it to be streetable .
I still want to see the cost comparison .
Do I fab up a whole new front suspension or fab 1 side of an axle .
Finding a rear axle that is offset and the same width as the front Scout axle may be tough too.
Don't forget I have mega parts for Dana44's already so I am ahead in the cost dept.
Thanks again ...input so far is great .

[vanbdan]

Ok I went out in the cold van,and measured from wheel mounting surface(w.m.s.)to w.m.s.,and it measured 53''.Then I crossed checked it with the FAQ. on the pirate board,which states 52.2".
thats total.
My measurement on the long side from w.m.s. to center of pinion is 30.5".
hope this helps.


"WMS Dimensions
Axle Wheel Mounting Surface (WMS)

Samurai:
Rear = 52.2" WMS to WMS
Front = 52.5" WMS to WMS

These measurements were taken from Stock 1986 Samurai axles.

Measurments may differ slightly due to build variation and parts sourcing."........this Qoute from pirate

[Mudslug]

Hey Danzuki have you ever had an axle snipped and made sorter? I think when you get the cost of this you will be moving the spring tabs out a few inches....hobbing new splines and getting everything true isn't cheap....

Hey its your build I am just trying to steer you in what I feel/know is the cheaper easier solution.

Remember if you move one side out one inch you have to move the other side an inch or you will get a very unpedictable ride.

[Terranaut]

I just want to do a cost comparison.
I am not a fabricator or a machinist ...I wouldn't trust my own welds for something this important( I mean spring hanger relocation).
But on the otherhand I could take most vehicles apart to the last bolt and reasemble it without a hitch.(Did it for years)
Either way I have to fork out cash to make this happen .
The questions are a) are my axles good candidates for this swap? and b) which way will cost less?
I am sure the spring change is cheaper but by how much ?
Plus like I said if it's gonna be a mile wide with these axles why not just drive a fullsize truck ?
I have also considered selling my stuff and getting alloy shafts and trusses but then I still have the birfield problem .
What to do what to do ??
Thanks for the measurement...it helps alot .
I will keep this thread current with the costs as I get them.

[Mudslug]

It should break down like this,

A) Scout axles are strong and a good choice for this, in my opinion they are a wee bit heavy but I am a toyo guy.

b) Steel for spring pads and relocation about $75, labour is free.

Axle shortening, realigning and hobbing on new splines about $300+ for a decent job. Don't forget that now is the time to get a spare made up too!!!

Don't worry about your width so much, wider is better. If you are worried about the PO PO so much just grab a some flares and properly offset rims...it will be fine.

Take a look at the pic above of the front of Scotts zook, the Toyo axles are about the same as Scout axles and his offset is way out there. The width should be cool and the axles will be stock which means easy fixes.

[Terranaut]

$75 would rock but I would need to source out that "free" labour as I do not have the fabrication equipment or welding ability.
When I get home tonight I will measure them and reply ....
All this still leaves the rear ... What about an offset rear 44?
I still got to have one of those made.

[Mudslug]

Huh? Why?? Toyos are centered and tons of people use them, just use a CV style shaft and you won't get any vibration.

The angle is not as bad as you would think, don't worrk so much this has been done millions of times.

Why are you worried about fabbing the spring hangers? Cut of the old ones and measure out from the side of the frame how much you are going to need and weld it up. if your worried about your welding weld 4 or five things to get into the groove and go for it. Remember if it is wrong you can always cut it off and start over.

Everyone starts somewhere.....

[vanbdan]

When I was at Lil Beast's,the other night he had his new fj40 axles laying under his zook,and with his flares(which look good,),It didn't look that wide..........maybe he can post up some picks,showing his mock-up
"paging LilBeast" we need some advice!,and he should be providing pics anyway,we want to see

[lil beast]

LOL, Thanks Van but its been to friggin cold to even go out and take a pic....the cam might not like it. Ill take some on Sunday. I was thinking of going D44 from a wagoneer cuz of the offset diffs but they are waaayyyy to wide for my liking. Wider is better for stability on the rocks. It wouldn't be for the small/tight trails we tackle sometimes. If you go D44 and you dont outboard your springs you will have a problem with the pass side perch. If you go toy you can have almost the same width as zuk axles with the right offset rims. Don't worry bout the offset diff if your not gonna drive it that much on the road. I have heard good and bad things about the center diff ie: getting hung up and vibes but they are bullet proof and are metric. Im running fj40 axles cuz I like the offset diff and the narrow track but i have the power to turn the big mofo's and I drive to almost all the trails(and cuz im different). Go with the toy axles and you wont have a prob. If you break something on the trail there will most likely be some spares somewhere. If you want, do a poll on this and find out how many of us will be running toys vs d44's on the trails that will give you an idea on what the spares will be like.

Good luck with your choice.

Get some Longfields and you wont break a birf.

[Terranaut]

Thanks beast ...
and even though I work for Toyota I have decided to go with what I got and put in the Scout axles front and rear.
Ya I paint topcoat in the Lexus paintshop at the Cambrige Toyota plant.
To bad I wasn't into hot rodding ...then I could swap spraying for welding but seeing as offroaders usually don't give a shit about the paint jobs on there rigs ...
Well ...I will need a welder for hire to help me with this ....
Any takers ?
Won't be until April before I need ya but I need someone to help .
Not looking for volenteers ...I will pay.
I just need to put these axles back together first.
Anybody need anything sprayed ?

[lil beast]

So are you going to shorten them? IMHO I would leave them stock and do the same as I mentioned as the toy's, get the right offset wheels and you will be fine. If you are going to move the springs out a bit to clear the pumpkin keep in mind the with offset wheels you get to keep the width as narrow as possible will cuse the tires to rub. I run 15x8 with a 5"back space(i think) and I have always rubbed on my springs with 33"tires. I hasnt stoped me yet and with my setup im going with now I will still be rubbing.

Either way you will be wider then a zuk axle. It all depends how wide you wanna go.

Oh if you leave the rear diff in the centre go with a CV drive shaft.

Cheeper the cutting and widening and customizing and......

[Terranaut]

No I am not going to shorten them .
Also this way if I get a v6 in the future I can just add a bit more lift and move up a tire size.
Now I need to find a power steering setup .