Offroad Liscence Plates - an FYI

[Depot]

They do exist! Fargin City of TO came pounding on my door again this morning.. damn neighbours bitchin about my zuk in the backyard and the crusher in the driveway. I won the fight over the crusher cause its on a traielr with valid plates but the city wouldnt budge over the zuk.. it has to have a valid plate and a valid sticker for me to park it on my property unless its on the trailer. So i went to the ministry this morning asked for an offroad plate, they looked at me as if I was on crack.. motorbikes no probs but a passenger vehicle??? nah, can be done. I explained my situation and they were extremely helpfull.. took em an hour talking to head office but they found out how to do it.

1- its really helpfull if the registration is already in ur name for the vehicle.

2 - u need a letter listing the modifications u did to ur truck and that it complies with offroad requirements. They didnt know what the requirements are so my handwritten lettter simply stated, yr make model, vin. "i lifted the truck, changed the axles and suspension, put a bigger motor in it and big mudder tires on it.. this vehicle is not suitable for on-road use anymre and is used strictly for off-road." signed and dated it.

3 - $35 for the plate - a small green lettered one like what u see on the back of bikes, no stickers, good for life and bob is ur uncle.

Now I can park my zuk in my driveway right at the front so the entire neighbourhood can suffer at the sight instead of just my crusty neighbour snooping in my backyard!


for 35 smackers might be a damn good idea for all the rest of the trailer queens out there - prolly keep mto a bit happier when they see us on the trail too.

gl all and thanks mudpig for the suggestion

l8r

D

[zc911]

that is good to know, thanks for the heads up

[vanbdan]

Originally posted by Depot
They do exist! Fargin City of TO it has to have a valid plate and a valid sticker for me to park it on my property unless its on the trailer.

1- its really helpfull if the registration is already in ur name for the vehicle.

2 - u need a letter listing the modifications u did to ur truck and that it complies with offroad requirements. They didnt know what the requirements are so my handwritten lettter simply stated, yr make model, vin. "i lifted the truck, changed the axles and suspension, put a bigger motor in it and big mudder tires on it.. this vehicle is not suitable for on-road use anymre and is used strictly for off-road." signed and dated it.

3 - $35 for the plate - a small green lettered one like what u see on the back of bikes, no stickers, good for life and bob is ur uncle.
D


#2doesn't sound right-And I 'm not saying your wrong,'cause you just did it-but what the hell are offroad requirements,and what does this plate allow you to do,other than park it in your driveway
where do we find the regulations on this?

[vanbdan]

oh ya Good for you Depot I hope it pisses your neighbours off......nosey people:in:

[Mudslug]

Dude I would soooo park that outside on the front lawn with a sign on it.

"I kept this in the backyard out of site but someone complained about what was in may backyard. So now that I am all legal i thought I would park this where everyone can see it. You know who you are, look what you have done, everyone must now look at this because of your meddling in others affairs!!"

Then put a big arrow pointing towards his house

[gordZuki]

do it .... do it ... shit i'd do it ... that would be so freaking funny ... then take pictures ... ha ha ha haah a ah aha ha ha

[Mudslug]

Yep take pictures and post it here.....oh god please do it, I need a laugh!!

[zc911]

do it do it do it that i WANNA SEEE :D

[Depot]

LMFAO at u guys.. u know i will do it too.. right after im done plowing this stupid storm. But it cant be on the front lawn.. has to be in the driveway.. no biggie.. i dont mind driving over my mudd (aka front lawn) with my dually to get around it :D

vanbdan - i dunno what the offroad requirements are.. havnt done any research on it... ministry chick didnt know either. She told me to write the letter listing mods so I did, not a big deal. If anyone out there has to time to spare, try to find out what these so called requirements are. Im going back to bed.. gotta try to squeak in a few more hours of sleep b4 i have to plow this crap snow. I'll be back after the storm.

D

[vanbdan]

I have e-mailed the mto already.....Ill keep ya posted on what I can find out......









oh yapics!!!

[Superzuk]

I think you might even get some media attention if you do it. People that are that interested in other people's business definetely don't deserve a chance. They wan't satisfaction that they made you abide by what they wanted. Well, I say, give them their satisfaction!!! :D

You might get in trouble for the sign though unless you have a commercial property. Or unless it is approved depending on the bylaw. Maybe have to figure that part out...

I want pictures... I used to have a nosey neighbor that was always interested in what I was doing. Actually saw him peeking in windows... What an utter anoyance...

[gordZuki]

if u can't make a sign paint it on the tail gate ... or tack weld a piece of tin to the back of your truck ... if it's part of something no one can say anything

[SuziCrazy]

One step closer to victory!.. now next question is..... you ready?.. What about insurance?!? Any clue on whether anyone will insure this unit?

I want to see this sign! that just too funny! Even if it's just a "poser" sign for the camera I NEED to see this!

[Mud Lite]

I had a neighbour like that. Hated the Shaggon Waggon....I don't know why?

I was building a shed in the back yard one day 18" away from his fence, 8'x12' and a full 7' inside and 18" off the ground......get the picture. He was a little pissed at the size and that fact that we didn't confide in him............... you wanna pay half, you can have what ever colour you want.

When I was doing the roof he asked me " How far does that nailer shoot" and I said " How fast can you run?":upy:

[vanbdan]

Originally posted by Mud Lite
I

When I was doing the roof he asked me " How far does that nailer shoot" and I said " How fast can you run?":upy:


haha....lmfao!!!!:ro: :ro: :ro:

[lil beast]

ill take the pics even..:beer:

[Depot]

u guys are killing me. this was supposed to be an fyi thread about plates and shit not familyfued neighbour style! lmfao

Im going back to work..

l8r

D

[Fullload]

Originally posted by Superzuk
I used to have a nosey neighbor that was always interested in what I was doing. Actually saw him peeking in windows... What an utter anoyance...

If you would stop having sex on the couch in the living room with the blinds open maybe he would stop.:boot:

So the next question is can you run both sets of plates. I know that i have a regular set but can i get a set of offroad plates to match.
Right now as it stands my insurance will not cover me the minute i go wheeling. I figure if i had an offroad plate i could get insurance while i am offroad, like an atv per say. That way when the cranky snowmobilers see us on thier trails in the summer they cannot say shiit cause we are plated and insured, the way they have to?
Just a couple things to ponder and maybe ask the next time that you are in line at the MTO.

[Superzuk]

Dude, I think that your PL/PD insurance would cover you even when offroad. Just not Comprehensive or collision.
How can they tell you that you are not insured when you are on an unmaintained road... Still Publicly owned tax paid crown land...

Fawk them... I say drive and when the shit happens, lets take them to court!!!

oh yeah... you forgot the kitchen counter!!! ;)

[Fullload]

:beer:

[MuddMachine]

Originally posted by Fullload

So the next question is can you run both sets of plates. I know that i have a regular set but can i get a set of offroad plates to match.

I dont think so.



Originally posted by Fullload

I figure if i had an offroad plate i could get insurance while i am offroad, like an atv per say. That way when the cranky snowmobilers see us on thier trails in the summer they cannot say shiit cause we are plated and insured, the way they have to?
Just a couple things to ponder and maybe ask the next time that you are in line at the MTO.

I got 4 trucks in the yard and no one complains so I really have no interest in the neighbor factor. Now the rest of this is what Id like to know. Off-road plate + insurance = untouchable. Doesnt it ? I would think with a plate we could go on any sled trail (off season of course) or any atv trail. Gonna get a plate for the green zook.

[Screwen]

Out at the shop i work on my junk at. We were getting a shit load of complaints from all of his neighbours about all of the unlicenced vehichles on the property.
WEll after looking into it we found out that his plaxe was zoned industrial so in other words we can have as many fuc*'n vehichles on the property as we want

well that afternoon we lined the fence closest to the Assholes place with broken down shit and left it there for a week:upy:

was a lot of work but i have never laughed so hard as when i was winching one into place watching the faces of the neigbours standing on their porch:ro:

[Fullload]

Originally posted by MuddMachine
Off-road plate + insurance = untouchable. Doesnt it ? I would think with a plate we could go on any sled trail (off season of course) or any atv trail. Gonna get a plate for the green zook.

Exactly. So why do i pay the road plates and insurance just to get hassled on the trail, (if) when you guys will laugh at the MTO or trail police when you guys have green stickers?
What about a motorcycle? There are some that are dual purpose. Road legal (because of a couple signals etc...) and used as well as an offroad vehicle? what plates do they run. Maybe we could get a cycle pl;ate that is dual purpose????

[vanbdan]

Fullload,have you been hassled on the trail by police,or ministy before about plates,or insurance?..Or anybody else.I have never been stopped,other than right at a trail entrance,and that was only to ask me" what kind of truck is that"? what were the results of these incidences,and what did the athorities have to say or advise?

[SuziCrazy]

I have been asked at the trail head before... The cop just looked around at the truck and ran my plates, but it was all good, I was plated and insured

[Depot]

The only reason I put an offroad plate on my truck is so that I can park it in a residentiallly zoned area. That is it. not for MTO or MNR or any other 3 lettered dweeb. I've never been hasled or even asked when on the trails about my plates or stickers despite the fact that my sticker on the city plate expired 3 years ago so I dont understand y everyone is getting so uppedy about it.

If u got valid plates and a valid sticker no one can touch u in regards to registering ur vehicle or driving an unregistered vehicle. thats all it does... doesnt protect u from MNR for other stuff like trespass or just being a drunken doornail. I dont think MNR cares which plate u got, but if they see u have a plate, I THINK it will make em a bit happier then seeing rusted out heaps just putting along.

As far as insurance goes.. if u are drunk, commiting an criminal act or fleeing from one, off-roading or on a race track.. U R NOT INSURED!!!! PERIOD! read ur fine print folks. If u want insurance for offroading - get offroad specific insurance in addition to ur regular insurance. U'll prolly have to go to another speciallized broker for it. Be wary though, if ur regular insurance company finds out u wheel ur zuk and its ur daily they may cancel u. Hell, I wouldnt insure me if I wheeled my zuk all day then hopped on the 401 to come home right after... the risk factor jsut jumped sky high so ur regular insurance might too if they find out.

I dunno bout the rest of u, but I for one will be getting offroad insurance this year for my trucks. I had a couple close calls last year where passangers got a good bump on the head - i was lucky and it was minor.. but if anything serious ever happened, the injured party, whether its ur passanger or another party can sue u and if u dont have good coverage - its ur hiney on the line - personally.. that means ur house, ur car, garnished wages for the rest of ur life.etc etc.

i for one have no biz preaching since I'm prolly one of the crazier wheelers out there but even Im learning and taking steps in wheeling responsibly.

o.k. dors wide open on that comment.. take ur best shots :boot:

D

[Depot]

Originally posted by vanbdan
I have never been stopped,other than right at a trail entrance etc etc

u know vanman.. i dont think there is anything MNR can do for u webwheelers. oops, look out.. here comes the internet police! :yike :yike

lmfao

D

[vanbdan]

hey I was out in mine last tuesday at the school so :upy: .....
Pretty fawkin bad ...here I am askin about if anyone has been hassled on the trail..........maybe ,the question should have been HEY ANYBODY ELSE EVER GET HASSLED BY THE POLICE OR MINISTRY IN THIER YARD.......webwheeler.........at least i can web wheel and not get a ticket for it.where's my ball,I'm going home now..fawkers pickin on me again :bawl: keep room on that trailer for me and my zook,'cause i'll be out this year,and I guess I'll have to GET IT!!!!!

[Fullload]

No Vanbdan i have not been "hassled " on the trail. I have been told that i cannot wheel there cause the snowmobilers lease that land etc... The officer/snowmobile club member took our plates down etc... and threatened to call an "On duty officer".
I was plated and insured with both vehicles (Truck and zook) so i was not too worried.
It is just that if they gave us an option of a plate or a trail permit, we could avoid the hassles of these dicks for crying that this is my land (stamping feet and whaling arms) and i don't wanna share like a two year old. Thier best arguement is that we do not pay for it etc...
If they did give us an option to obey the rules or result in fines i think every wheeler, plated offroad or not would pay to have a reflective sticker in the windshied (or in depots case his forehead) to display.
This would generate the government the desired income that they thrive on, and also give them the ability to fine or charge loiterers, or the users of illegal substances ( alcohol, drugs etc..)
while doing this would keep the snowmobilers at bay, and we could legitmally tell them to stick it in thier ass. We get patrolled trails by whomever from them bieng destroyed and littered upon.
On another note that would also give us free range of every labelled snowmobile trail in Ontario.

[zc911]

you could save yourself some moeny and make your passangers sign a waier before going for a ride :D

[vanbdan]

ya I like the thought,and am surprised that the ministry hasn't jumped on that bandwagon before,'cause as you said they need/want the revenue.

[Depot]

more fyi - a waiver of liability isnt even worth the paper its written on - not even as tee pee for bung ho. They are used primarily to make ppl think they cant sue if somethign happens. throw the word neglegt into the suit and waiver smaiver - ur toast.

i.e. was it forseeable to a reasonable person that climbing rocks in a 4x4 may result in an accident or injury?

food for thought


D

[zc911]

really? Oh ya i guess they could say sothing like you put their life in danger and they didin;t agree to that, pssf ****ed up world but at least we don;t live in the US

[Grumpy]

Yeah, so what happened with the MTO? Did they get back to you about the requirements? I gotta do something about my Zuk. With all my "other vehicles" around my property, having a plate like that on the Samurai means one less vehicle to worry about. What with the demo derby cars, hotrods, "projects" and daily drivers, man I'm up to 12 at home right now!:bang:

[SuziCrazy]

I just got back from the MTO, they were extremely helpful today. Here's what I found out, you can convert any car/truck into what they call a "bogey". All you need to do is write a letter stating that your truck is no longer a street truck. Cost is $35 for a plate that never has to be renewed... yes that's right good for life! No emissions test, no safety. No requirements at all, not even lights or exhaust are required... Downside is that once your rig has been registered as a "bogey" it's a lenthy process to get it plated for the road again (if you ever wanted to..?!?). Thought I'd share this info.

[Depot]

wow - sounds like what my long winded speal I said to start this thread with... i think i need to drink more! :beer:


D

[SuziCrazy]

Then I was just confirming what you said with my own experience :upy:

:beer:

[vanbdan]

well thats good news for all you guys that are unplated...Its nice to see someone get abreak.The mto sent me a link back to the site that I e-mailed them from,that explaines what an offroad vehicle is

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/orv.htm
It doesnt really help though,because their definition,describes a 4-wheeler.

[MuddMachine]

If your registered as an ORV, then thats that. But........ some of it just cant or doesnt apply, we need to know where we stand on such issues:

Vehicle Equipment Standards
ORVs must have the specified equipment (e.g., head lights, tail lights, working brakes, reflectors, low-pressure bearing tires).

[SuziCrazy]

From what I understood from the Manager at the MTO, there's Offroad, and then there's "Buggy". (Depot that's why I posted my findings). He said that registered under the "buggy" has no restriction, he acctually refered to a buggy ranging from a modified shopping cart to a fully custom made tube truck. So I think that leave us with a lot of room to play with.

[MuddMachine]

Originally posted by SuziCrazy
From what I understood from the Manager at the MTO, there's Offroad, and then there's "Buggy". (Depot that's why I posted my findings). He said that registered under the "buggy" has no restriction, he acctually refered to a buggy ranging from a modified shopping cart to a fully custom made tube truck. So I think that leave us with a lot of room to play with.

Is there a link or something on paper bout this ? Reason I ask is cuz it seems like no one really knows the rules. What they say at the MTO office is different from what the MTO inspectors say and it may be different from what the cops say. The fukn system is so unorganized, it's rediculous.

[SuziCrazy]

Off topic but interesting non the less

"How big is the off-road vehicles industry?
Off-road vehicles are outselling snowmobiles in Canada by approximately three to one"

and here's a link to guide books

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/drivhand/carvan.htm

[vanbdan]

I know that a couple of you guys have gotten this info already,but would it be worth it for me to try and go talk to them at the mto on monday.I think it would be time well spent,and I'm not doing anything anyways(e.i.).What I mean Is get some clear and consice(sp?)information,as to what exactly the real regulations are?And to find out if there are any written guidelines,that cover ORV with out lumping us in with three and four wheelers.As MM said the office info,and the website info,and inspectors out on the roads all have varring opinions of what is what...This could also open a big can of worms,...I'll let you decide before I really pursue it.I would really like to talk to some one farther up the food chain in the mto,and see where we stand,but in doing so this could tighten the regulations,-food for thought.

[Depot]

yah, thats how mine is plated - as a buggy - i never caught onto the difference between ORV and a buggy. When liscencing office was issuing my plate they have a list of all these catagories to fit u into and they put me under "dune buggy" - close enough I guess. As far as im concerned, just hving that plate or some valid plate on the truck will go a long ways. For those of u with real plates and valid stickers and regular insurance, from what i can tell u got no worries.

That link for the mto info re 4 wheelers was intersting though.. stuff about insurance - gotta have it... u have to submit proof of it within 72 hours of being requested to - guess they dont expect u to carry it with u.... I'll see if I can dig up anything more on it as it pertains to us.. if anyone else can help, please do

l8r

D

[MuddMachine]

Originally posted by Depot
That link for the mto info re 4 wheelers was intersting though.. stuff about insurance - gotta have it...

Thats right, otherwise the only benifit of the plate would be for your issue with the neighbors.

[Zukinator]

Any new news on the insurance part?

That is the biggest issue for me, I would like to have it plated, but don't want insurance....

:beer:

[Tippy]

The police I run into want to see Ownership and Insurance. One cop told me they do it to protect the land owners from lawsuits.

[Depot]

even with an offroad plate, law says u gotta have appropriate insurance for it. Dunno exactly what that entails, call ur brokers up. But with an offroad vehicle, u have 72 hours to produce ur paperwork, its not on the spot like regular vehicles.

D

[drtysuzuk]

if your rig is registered as fit but the e-test is stopping you from getting a sticker, just get a trip permit. i carry inssurance but cant pass the test,so if i,m going to travel far i go get a trip permit. only $15 and you can get as many as u need.
i only get one and keep it nice and clean and ready for re-use.

[lil beast]

Originally posted by drtysuzuk
if your rig is registered as fit but the e-test is stopping you from getting a sticker, just get a trip permit. i carry inssurance but cant pass the test,so if i,m going to travel far i go get a trip permit. only $15 and you can get as many as u need.
i only get one and keep it nice and clean and ready for re-use.

They limited me to 2 trip permits for the same vehicle. There are dates as to when they are issued and when they expire so if you get pulled over with an expired permit your fuked.

[Zukinator]

So for the insurance part, does anyone reccomend a company to have good rates for these "buggies"? Mine doesn't insure this type of vehicle :bawl:

[Tippy]

The Goverment promise to reduce insurance rates on cars is making the Insurance Companies raise bike and other recreational rates. At the end of the day these guys want to make the same profit. I found it cheaper to sniff it, plate it, insure it and never sticker it again. Good for offroad only, I tow mine but you can still get a trip permit.

[The Grump]

They limited me to 2 trip permits for the same vehicle. There are dates as to when they are issued and when they expire so if you get pulled over with an expired permit your fuked.

I know you are only aloud 1 trip permit per vehicle if the ownership is still in the previous owners name, fit/plated.(unless they forget to write on the ownership that they issued you one, then you can go in and get another one!!!) I have never had a problem getting trip permit after trip permit after trip permit on the same vehicle, as long as the vehicle is in your name and says fit/unplated you can get as many as you need. Even the ministry told me that. But an expired permit, ya your ****ed!! Been pulled over many times with a trip permit cause they are cracking down on people driving with expired permits.

[Zukinator]

Hey Depot?SuziCrazy

When you got your dune buggy registration and insurance set up with your Ins. co. did you need to get a safety done? My broker is trying to find a way around getting the safety, but so far no luck. They will insure it as a ORV, but needs a safety first. that is one of the main reasons I want to go this route, cause my body will never pass a safety! If you didn't what is your ins. company? what did they tell u?

Thanks
Tim

[Depot]

My insurance company wont touch my zuk.. and thats b4 I told em anything other than its an offroad vehicle. I have been unsuccessfull in finding an is co in TO that will insure a home made atv or ORV.

I heard state farm will but have not followed up on that...

anyone else have any luck?

D

[TheSarg]

Okay this is what confuses me. I have Quads with Valid offroad liscence plates and valid insurance. I can literally drive past the O.P.P. office in the local town and go to the Tim Horton's drive through providing i wear a helmut(up to the descretion of the municipality, dont try it downtown T.O.). I pay $11.75 per month in insurance for this priviledge. What confuses me is if a Zuk or any vehicle is registered as an offroad vehicle then why do A.T.V. rules not apply?

I'll call my broker @ State Farm tomorrow & ask what she thinks, cause if it falls under the ATV clause then whats the prob?

[Zukinator]

This was my question to my broker. He couldn't answer it for me. He basically agreed, but told me they still won't insure it without a safety. a couple of the other companies he deals with wouldn't even touch me as it is a modified vehicle. Not to mention I would be looking at over $50 month for liability only.. Seems high considering the use..

Let me know what SF says..

[Depot]

I was told that they wont insure passanger vehicles as ORV. They'd insure an atv as an atv and a pass vehicle as a pass vehicle but wont cross over. Its as if they dont trust my building skills to build a safe ORV/ATV? cant imagine why that would be :D

D

[Fullload]

My broker knows what my truck is and has seen trail pics. Everytime that i talk to him he "reminds me" that it is not insured when i wheel.
This is what he says, which is a quote from his book. If the vehicle is drivin in an unsafe of dangerous manner it will not be covered.
He also knows that i drive it on the road to and from the trails and he is cool with that, but the minute my hubs lock i am not covered. I basically have insurance so if an accident occurs on the street.
Meanwhile my broker is insuring my truck and the car and now my trailer and all of my family members. It would be shitty buisness practise on his part "as a Broker" to tell my actual insurance company what they are insuring.
Right now there is no harm and no foul. The way i see it is that if the insurance company insured the vehicle and then found out it was modified in an accient or theft claim they still have to cover me. It is at thier discresion to cancel my insurance after because of any modifications.

[Depot]

The way i see it is that if the insurance company insured the vehicle and then found out it was modified in an accient or theft claim they still have to cover me. It is at thier discresion to cancel my insurance after because of any modifications.


I hate to be the bearer of bad news but that is not true. It is your responsibility to inform ur insurance company of any modifications to ur vehicle especially any mods that may increase the value of the vehicle or change the characteristics like engine upgrades. Its called 'Material Disclosure". If ur ins co finds out after u put in a claim that u changed ur vehicle in anyway such that a higher premium may have been warranted if u had properly informed them, they can and in many cases do cancel ur policy from its effective date (ur annual renewal usually) - refund u back ur premiums and wish u a merry x-mas. Basically u r left as if u were not insured at all. For minor crap most ppl might say - who cares, I'll just pay for the damages and move on... but what happens if ur in an accident where u r deemed to be at fault or even partly at fault. ur ins co bails on u and now u r personally liable for potentially millions of $$.

I dont know how this works via a broker though. If u inform ur broker what mods u;ve done to the truck and he fails to inform the insurance company, then u prolly have a good claim against him.. either which way, ur stuck in court for years to come.

it really may be worth ur while to investigate this further if ur gonna drive ur zuk on the roads.

D