cage question?

[stress]

What are the pros and cons of tying a cage directly to the frame,other than if the floors are weak some people say you shouldnt tie it to the frame?

[Mudslug]

Why would you not want to tie it into the frame?? In a good roll over a cage without a proper plate to sit on can poke right through the floor. Sure running it to the frame will limit frame flex but is an extra 10 points on the cheese ramp worth your life?

Frame....

[lil beast]

this is all the obvious shait,

frame mount:

pros:
stonger

cons:
non-removable(unless you cut it out)

floor mount:

pros:
removable

cons:
not as strong as frame mount

[vanbdan]

Is it not possible to combine the two?weld/attach to the frame,and sleave tube with heavy duty bolts,so it is some what removable.I wondered about this-if you roll,and tweek your cage and body,your cage can be replaced,as well as the body.....
But I have yet to roll mine ,cause it's usually in the garage :D

[Mudslug]

Possible? Sure...Safe? not in my opinion. Why?? The more "fiddly" things you add to a mounting point the greater the chance of weakness working its way in there.....bolts have sheer ratings...welding not so much...

[vanbdan]

"I suggest that you weld brackets to the frame with 1/4" plate welded to the top of the bracket that lines up/mirrors the location of where roll cage hoops/down tubes will locate on the floor of the tub. You then weld 1/4" plate of the same dimensions on the down tubes of the cage. Then bolt the two plates together with grade 8 hardware, this sandwiches the tubs floor between the plates (bracket from frame and cage).

By doing it in this manner you can remove the cage if need be as well as the tub/body from the frame if that ever becomes a factor ie. to replace, repair. etc."


this is a quote from a similiar thread on pirate by some one that goes by polkabully.....now I guess I should have explained what I meant better.

I also noticed Rockrat(he posts on this board as well),who builds/fabs cages etc... also agreed with it.
I'm not a fabricator(I dont even know how to weld) but this seems to be a great idea in my opinion:beer:

[Depot]

FRAME!!! period!!!! u gonna bet ur life on that sheetmetal flooring? my first cage was floor welded.. looked purdy and all but the first major smack I got.. the welds held but it ripped chunks of the sheetmetal right out with it.... now all of a suddem im upsidedwon in a ditch fighting off a roll cage thats trying to chop my feet off at my ankles as i calmly and controlabbly skidded to a stop against that nice tree :D


FRAME!!!


D

[Fullload]

Originally posted by Depot
as i calmly and controlabbly skidded to a stop against that nice tree
D


There is nothing calm nor controlled about your style of wheeling depot.
You have this beautiful brake set up with chevy rotors and calipers in the rear and toyota 4 pistons up front and you still rely on trees as a means of stopping. sheesh.:roll:



:beer:

[MuddMachine]

Originally posted by lil beast


frame mount:

pros:
stonger

cons:
non-removable(unless you cut it out)



IMHO "unless you cut it" = removeable. :D

[Superzuk]

Frame, BUT...
in my opinion, it would be beneficial to have your seats mounted to an internal bottom cage that is mounted to the frame as well. That way if the body rips off, you are still sitting in the cage, and the body is not crumpling up beneath you...


Just a thought.,..

[Depot]

totally agree... my 5 pt harness is bolted to both.. the shoulder straps to the roll cage, the jock strap to a piece of angle iron welded across the entire underbody of the zuk (good luck ripping that through). the lap belts i use the stock zuk seatbelt bolts - looked pretty meaty to me. keep in mind that I also have the hard plastic racing bucket seats... when the belts snug up, the seats rigitity prevents u from getting crushed. just ask vanbdan when that boulder at ardbeg jumped outta the ground and attacked him! :D

I wouldnt recomend seat belts to cage if cage is to frame and ur running stock seats. if anything serious does happen and boddy ripps away from frame, u will get crushed by the belts.

more food for thought.

D

[vanbdan]

Originally posted by Depot
the lap belts i use the stock zuk seatbelt bolts - looked pretty meaty to me.keep in mind that I also have the hard plastic racing bucket seats... when the belts snug up, the seats rigitity prevents u from getting crushed. just ask vanbdan when that boulder at ardbeg jumped outta the ground and attacked him! :D

I wouldnt recomend seat belts to cage if cage is to frame and ur running stock seats. if anything serious does happen and boddy ripps away from frame, u will get crushed by the belts.

more food for thought.

D

lmfao Depot!,that was afriggen hay ride,and everybody that saw it thought I must have got "rocked"....The truth is,If it wasn't for those seats,I probably would have taken a hit,but because of them,after we finally got the Depot -Zook to let me out(jamed in the seatbelt)I was good to drink beer,and did!:beer:


ps. I like the new sig line,I could use a friend like that!

[Mud Lite]

You can have your cake and eat it too!!!

Build your cage and weld it to the top floor plate. Then bolt another plate under the floor through the upper plate and weld a bracket from that down to the frame. Or you can add a body mound between the plates if you are concerned with isolating the body from the frame.

[LWB Samurai Joe]

I think Ole Lighty is correct. The ultimate trouble with cage to frame is that the seats are attatched to the tub. If the roll is bad enough and the body come loose, while your cage is attatched to the frame (remember your in the seats which are attatched to the body) you're probably dead. If you connect the cage to the frame the body needs to be equally secure so that it and you in the seats do come loose. Or, the seats need to be attatched to the cage as well. This usually secures the body somewhat too.



TB

[Mud Lite]

Hey Joe: drop the ole lighty shit.

[drtysuzuk]

would you not be better to remove the floor where you want to join the cage to the frame mounts so that everything bolts up tight?
if leakage is an issue then just patch around the tube after install

[LWB Samurai Joe]

Hey Lighty, be a nice guy and I will!

I know, I know, it's not in your nature. But, I think that if you try REAL hard you'll get a more harmonious outcome.

Besides, you Canadians are SUPPOSED to be nice.

At least all the ones I know are.

Hmm, infact, you're the first one that hasnt been.

Now that is amazing.




TB:ban: :uk: :fl: :po: :ban:

[Depot]

ok ok... if u 2 kids dont smarten the **** up and start to play nice then u can both lick my hairy tequila sunrising ass!!!!! i for one am tired of this and I dont tire easily! now smarten up or shut the **** up!

:upy: :upy:

D

[LWB Samurai Joe]

Hey, the guy has ridden my butt all over the internet!

He's never been civil to me. I'm just playing with him.

Alright, I'm done.

Mr. Mud lite you are a scholar and a gentleman.



TB

:ban:

[vanbdan]

Man I entered grade school again!what is this crap about us Canadian boys being so nice?I'm assuming that all the States people including yourself are not?Is this what you mean? Grow up,If you dont like Mudlite hounding you on the internet,listen to what your mom told you ,and ignore him.Put him out of your misery...Look around,he contributes heavily to this site.I dont even Know him,but have read his site more than once looking for Ideas for my own Zook,and from you all I have seen is the same pics posted on every board that I have ever "lurked"on.Sorry if I have offended you,after all I am but a quiet source of humour on this board,and a polite ,nice Small town Canadian boy,who told you that you have a quality zook,but I am getting tired of you ,because since you came on this board,all you did was post pics of your ride and argue with Mudlite.Take your shit somewhere else,or grow a thicker skin.I have been ridiculed on this board from day one ,-dont like- **** off:upy:

[MuddMachine]

TB....... pardon Vanbdan but he's the infamous Zookpower WebWheeler and doesnt like people hoggin up all the negative attention..........

Now all of ya's can STFU if ya got nothin more to say about a cage. Speakin of wich................

MudLite... how is your cage mounted on your rig ?

[Mud Lite]

My cage was built into the body in the rear during the convertable conversion. Since I cut the rear off, it has been tied back into the frame. The front of the cage was only body mounted to the floor. I ussed sandwich plates , which I will be attaching directly to the frame. I have also tied the front shock hoops back into the cage through the fire wall.

Currently, mudlite is just a research vehicle for the suspension system.

[lil beast]

So how about a cage that is tied to the body and the seats and seat belt tied to the cage? This is what i am planning to do with mine. The way I see it is that if the body comes away from the cage or the frame the occupants are still in the cage. no?

[MuddMachine]

Beast your plan sounds good to go but the real question is...... what kind of shape is the body in ? No way the body would seperate from the cage if all the steel is there and not rotted away.

[LWB Samurai Joe]

TB....... pardon Vanbdan but he's the infamous Zookpower WebWheeler

MM, no problem. Mostly Im just having fun. Ive got nothing against ML either. I'll give it a break.

Ive got my cage and seats attatched to the body with LARGE plates. I dont have a problem with peoples fil-os-o-fee either way. The body or the frame. I will say this, the guy who built my cage (I dont weld well enough to trust a cage) is a rally, circle track, 4x4 cage manufacturer. I trust his stuff.

There is a point when your body cant take the abuse whether your cage survives or not. As long as your cage is designed well, and your floor plates are good size and secure, your good.

[Depot]

hey lil, I like ur idea there... build a cage attached firmly to the body and seats to the cage... worst case scenaria, body ripps off completely like say in a high speed rollover.. ur still in a built cage. But for that idea to work, the cage woould have to go full circle including bars accross the floor to make it complete. sorta like he funny cars do it.. when the car disintegrates, the passanger cabin separates from the engine and chasis keeping u in a solid box till u roll to a stop. Way overkill for us but if ur gonna go.. go BIG! :beer:

D

[lil beast]

Thanks d. Ya sometimes my brain does work:D

[gobig]

the way i see it, either way is better then not having one at all!!!!!!:bo: